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  3. Your computer specs that run all instruments and VE PRO 5/MIR Pro in one box?

  • Your computer specs that run all instruments and VE PRO 5/MIR Pro in one box?

    C
    C

    Hi All,

    I was hoping you all might share with me your computer specifications if you are running the following all on the same box scenerio:

    1.  VE PRO 5 using MIR PRO - all of your entire orchestra is using MIR PRO.

    2.  You are using Dimension strings and Dimension Brass as separate icons on the stage, not one single grouped VI.  The rest of the winds etc. are from VSL also.

    3.  You are running your DAW and all plug-ins (i.e. Vienna Suite, SSL etc.) on the same box.

    4.  Layering other libraries like LASS on top of those above at times, also putting them on the MIR PRO Stage.

    5.  Windows 7 or 8 64-bit

    I know it seems like a lot but I am hoping someone is accomplishing their entire DAW on one machine as I have always done for many years but have hit my limit and need to upgrade again to make room for Dimension Strings and Brass.  I am hoping to keep a low latency setup going.  Right now I am at 256 but I will have to start freezing tracks just to keep using this computer.

    Thanks!

    Maestro2be
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    MIR PRO in stereo ? 5.1 ?

    You may need an HP worstation with  2  XEON of 12 cores each  ;)  ;)  ;)

    http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/WW-USSMBPublicStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?ProductUUID=tdMQ7EN5zgQAAAFBXYFNbJcf&CatalogCategoryID=x.IQ7habXDwAAAFCulgtkXzC&JumpTo=OfferList

    it is just 9 999 $   LOL

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    last edited
    last edited

    @cgernaey said:

    Hi All,

    I was hoping you all might share with me your computer specifications if you are running the following all on the same box scenerio:

    1.  VE PRO 5 using MIR PRO - all of your entire orchestra is using MIR PRO.

    2.  You are using Dimension strings and Dimension Brass as separate icons on the stage, not one single grouped VI.  The rest of the winds etc. are from VSL also.

    3.  You are running your DAW and all plug-ins (i.e. Vienna Suite, SSL etc.) on the same box.

    4.  Layering other libraries like LASS on top of those above at times, also putting them on the MIR PRO Stage.

    5.  Windows 7 or 8 64-bit

    I know it seems like a lot but I am hoping someone is accomplishing their entire DAW on one machine as I have always done for many years but have hit my limit and need to upgrade again to make room for Dimension Strings and Brass.  I am hoping to keep a low latency setup going.  Right now I am at 256 but I will have to start freezing tracks just to keep using this computer.

    I can do all of that (minus 3rd-party-libraries and -players) on my custom-built i7-3930K from late 2012 (32 GB RAM @ 1600 MHz, 2 SSDs for samples, RME HDSP audio hardware; Windows 7-64, Nuendo 5.5.), but not with the latencies you're after. MIR Pro stereo setups with 130+ Icons on a stage are workable with 1024/1024 samples latency (system/MIR). I've used 5.0 surround setups with 50 and more Icons, too.

    HTH,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • A
    A

    Well,  not exactly what you asked,  but I have just done a recording using all of Dimension Strings as seperate players, plus I added in Appassionata and String Orchestra as well, 3 players of Dimension Brass were there along with a large orchestra.  I had BFD3 for drums, Kontakt was in there plus Trillion for bass (all on the MIR stage).

    Now,  I don't run Cubase on this same computer, that is networked,  but I always run Sibelius on the same computer, so that was active on the same computer.

    I always use one instance of VE Pro, and had a very cluttered looking stage in MIR !  I'm sure the trumpet section would have got hit with the viola players bows !

    I don't know if different MIR rooms require more processing power than others, but I was using the Gateshead  Sage Hall One,  (stereo out).

    The system is:-  i7 processor (960), 8 core, 3.2GHz, 24GB RAM (Triple Channel), Windows 7, WD Cavier Black hard drives (one for VSL, one for everything else in addition to a boot drive). VE Pro/MIR settings are at default settings, VEP Pro 2 buffers, MIR 512.

    Cubase's delay compensation can sometimes get a bit over zealous,  as the only "latency" issues I get, is that Cubase can record the MIDI playing early,  so it looks like I play before the beat - but I'm sure I don't, but it keeps everything very real. 

    I do have a theory why my system works so well, without being over spec'ed. Because I play everything in real time, everything is naturally slighty off perfect time,  for people that step input or quantise too heavily, they probably have times when everything is playing on a precise beat and that could well put too much demand on the system where maybe 20 notes are having to play at exactly a point in time,  with my "real" playing, all of my notes could well be upto 50mS apart, and so giving the system time to deal with it.

    My final recording is done be bouncing down each track, so that the final mix is done with all audio tracks in Cubase,  but during the recording process - everything is playing at once.
  • C
    C

    Thanks for the replies gentlemen,

    I think you helped give me a true realistic position to view from.  Cyril, that machine is pretty awesome lol but out of my price range at the moment lol :).

    Dietz,

    Thank you for confirming for me, that even you have to raise your latency to 1024.  When I do this or higher, my system works perfectly as well (1024 can still click a few here and there when I layer LASS on top of everything).  Your post was very helpful.

    Andy,

    What latency/samples is your sound card set to please?  Those settings you have, are so similar to mine and so is your computer except I have all SSD drives.  I have the same RAM etc.

    How do you all work with this latency?  I "play live" everything into the computer.  How are you able to work with such huge latencies?  It makes me insane trying to do this at those enormous latencies!  Have you just become accustom to it or do you not play in live?  I see you do Andy, but again what is your soundcard latency?  I can't imagine people playing in "live" with 1024+ samples.

    Maestro2be
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    Did you see there ia a new Xeon, the E7

    Up to 15 core, 2,5 Mb cache, 1,5 Tb of Ram per E7 and up to 8 x E7 in a computer

    That will be a MIR PRO server !!!!

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • C
    C

    WOW!!  That will be a beast lol.  That has got to have one enormous price tag lol.

    I was thinking of something.  I could also take my Dimension Sections, and put them on seperate drives since I have 4 SSD's.  I could put Violins on one drive, Violas on another etc..  This might actually work (but I haven't tested it yet).

    I think I will try to hold off until I can afford something like that Cyril lol.  Because that will certainly give me what i need for some years.  I was able to run this machine for years now.  It was just with the addition of Dimension Strings that killed me.

    Maestro2be
  • C
    C

    CM or Dietz (or anyone at VSL) :).

    Do you know or have direct knowledge if say an 8-core AMD chip, can outperm a 4 core Intel i7 chip running at the same core speed?  Specifically with use to MIR Pro/VE PRO 5.

    I am just wondering if the extra cores really help on this application, versus fewer cores with a possibly higher core speed.

    Thanks,

    Maestro2be
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    last edited
    last edited

    @cgernaey said:

    WOW!!  That will be a beast lol.  That has got to have one enormous price tag lol.

    I was thinking of something.  I could also take my Dimension Sections, and put them on seperate drives since I have 4 SSD's.  I could put Violins on one drive, Violas on another etc..  This might actually work (but I haven't tested it yet).

    Maestro2be

    Putting them on seperate drive will not help as the instrument are loaded sequentially (confirmed lattely by VSL support)

    it's better to build a raid 0

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • C
    C

    Awesome, thanks Cyril.  Glad to hear that is confirmed actually.  RAID 0 adds enormous speed benefits in many cases but I have usually not done it due to the downtime when the drive fails.  However, in this situation, I would be down ANYWAY if my 1 drive failed.

    I think I will order a RAID controller and then a second identical drive and move them over to that and see what happens.  Even if it doesn't completely solve my issue, I could use it in my new system when I built it.

    Exactly what model RAID controller are you using and what kind of speed/throughput are you getting from the read access on it?  I know you said it was a rocket raid, but exactly what model and brand are you using?

    Maestro2be
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    last edited
    last edited

    There is very little chance that the raid fail as you are going to read it 99,99 % of the time

    You just need to backup your lib on HD(s) in case of !

     I use the Rocket Raid sata III card  640 made for MAC, HighPoint tech has card for PC and MAC

    I have put 2x screen copy after, hope they will show

    @Another User said:

    256 GB ssd (read = 269 mb/s)
    Raid of 4 x 64 GB ssd (read = 711 mb/s)

    @Another User said:


    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • C
    C

    Thanks Cyril,

    I think I will upgrade my processor to the 6-core extreme and then add a raid controller and RAID 0 these drives.  I just haven't decided if I want to raid all 4 x 512GB drives and just put every sample library company I own on that RAID 0, or to have separate RAID 0's.  It's still much cheaper than building a complete new system and see how far I can take this system.

    Maestro2be
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    Dont forget that more drive you have, faster the Raid 0 will be, of course limited by the speed the channel 

    It will be great if VSL could do like the EXS24, have a counter of "samples not loaded in time "

    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • C
    C

    So I have beyond a doubt figured out this is due to the processor and not hard drives.  I decided to reduce Studio One down from 6 threads, to 2 threads and it was still working at 19% CPU which is fantastic.

    I then took my VE PRO 5/MIR PRO session and upped it from 2 threads to 4 and it only was hiting 75% CPU now with all strings playing.  So I am definitely going for the maximum CPU for this motherboard and calling it a day.  I can't really work with doing freeze tracks because I use y Bricasti all the time and it takes hours to freeze a song (because it freezes one track at a time, in real time).  If this all works out with the CPU upgrade though I will probably just use Hybrid Reverb instead of the Bricasti during the working process and then after all tracks are bounced do the final mix of audio files to the Bricasti instead of the Hybrid reverb.

    As a side note, I upped the thread from 2 to 4 and got over 25% gain in performance.  When I did from 2 to 6 thread It was only 30% so the returns are greatly diminished after 4 it seems.

    Maestro2be
  • S
    S

    This has been a great discussion.

    ---

    I basically had the same question as Maestro2b:  I've waited for years to upgrade to a set up  that can handle a full Vienna orchestra, Digital Performer, and MIR on one machine.  (My old setup requires three machines, and the master computer has given up the ghost!)  

    ---

    I'd like to buy one of those amazing new "trashcans" which use Xeon E5 Ivy Bridge processors.  I am trying to map what was discussed here to the right number of cores on the new system, using Geekbench 3.0 scores to see how they compare.

    ---

    Andyjh:  Your software setup sounds very close to my goal: full orchestra, MIR, additional software (in my case... my DAW Digital Performer). You said you have an i7 (960) 8 core, but everything I read says 960 is a 4-core.  Wondered if you have a dual processor machine.  In any case, I used the Geekbench 3 browser and the only Geekbench 3 scores I see are for 4 core.  Have you tried running Geekbench?  Or any other info on where it might stack up?  (http://browser.primatelabs.com/)  I may just not understand how to read the numbers in your case.

    ---

    Dietz:   Your machine, with an i7 (3930K, Sandy Bridge) 6 core - looks to have a Geekbench score around 21516.  That seems to place it close to a New MP with Xeon 6 core.
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD

    I just ran Geekbench in tryout mode (which is 32-bit only, so I skipped the memory benchmarks). These were the results:

    --------------------------

    Windows 7:

    Integer Performance:

    Single-core 3111

    Multi-core 21635

    Floating Point Performance:

    Single-core 3139

    Multi-core 22453

    -------------------

    OSX 10.8.4:  

    Integer Performance:

    Single-core 2985

    Multi-core 21018

    Floating Point Performance:

    Single-core 2974

    Multi-core 21443

    ----------------

    HTH,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • C
    C

    My 6 core 980X came in the mail so I will be testing it hopefully this weekend to see the difference in speed and power.

    Stephen,

    Keep in mind I have always run on one single machine.  It is only with the introduction of Dimension Strings and Brass that I hit a limitation now, due to so many individual tracks versus the old style which were entire sections in one track (appassionata, chamber etc.).

    One machine is very easy to do with MIR Pro and all those things (vienna suite), Cubase 7.5, Studio One v2.6 etc.  It just depends on how many actually tracks you intend to use without "freezing" any of them.  I setup this week individual group tracks and audio tracks for all my sections so that I can freeze them into audio tracks as I go to free up the remaining power.  So whatever results I get this weekend, I will be making work for me as I have decided I won't buy a new machine as it's not necessary.

    When I am not playing all the dimension products my machine is sitting at about 10-20% with 40 instruments playing and MIR Pro, with full vienna suite presets on instruments.  And with a complete FX chain on the master output and a Bricasti M7 send.  This machine is doing more than I did before with 3-4 machines and I am not ready to give it up yet.

    I do have a 4930K motherboard system I purchased to actually use for internet and gaming ;), that if all else fails, I could buy memory for that and it would add an enormous upgrade as well.  I just haven't talked myself into this yet.  Let me receive pops and clicks all weekend long this weekend and I might be singing another song on Monday :).

    Maestro2be
  • S
    S

    Thanks for the input!  

    Maestro2be: Good luck and have fun getting the new system running!  Eager to hear how it goes.

    Dietz:  Thanks for running the numbers.  So, your machine is faster than I had estimated.  The dual processor score seems to put it mid-way between a 6- and an 8-core NMP.  (A seven core? ha!)
  • C
    C

    So the results weren't as good as I were hoping, but certainly what I expected to see.  VE PRO/MIR PRO didn't really respond very much to the additional threads.  I moved it from 4 threads to 8 and only seen about a 10% CPU reduction when adding 2 more cores/4 threads to it.  I sure was hoping for more than that.

    I am able to now work at 512 samples latency but I am hitting about 85-95% CPU so I won't push my machine that hard as it will run to hot.  I haven't fully decided what I will do yet but I am not entirely happy with the results.

    One option I have is to build the second machine I have that has a 4930K processor and use it to process MIR PRO.  I just can't stand all the latency.

    Maestro2be
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    last edited
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    @cgernaey said:

    [...] I just can't stand all the latency.

     Why don't you just bypass the one instance of MIR Pro which is used for the instrument you plan to play in real-time?

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library