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Solo Cello Repetition not cooperating - Won't play first slot
Last post Mon, Mar 31 2014 by julian, 10 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Mar 17 2014 13:06
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1053

I absolutely cannot get the exrpressive cello sample to begin on the "1st" sample in this specific passage.  No matter what I do (turn off all other repetitions etc.) it refuses to play the 1st sample which is the absolutely one I need, since it pulses 3 bowings long.  Here is the repeatable failed pattern:

Start with an F#3 using the regular legato - 01 VC_perf-legato

Then play a B3 using - 02 VC_dyn-me_Vib_3s  (keep the two notes connected legato style, no note gaps)

Now play another B3 but change sample to 14 VC_sus_Vib-espr (there should be no overlap of these two notes, as it's a re-bowing)

That B3 expressive sample will begin on the second repetition, instead of playing the 1st.

How do I absolutely force it to use that sample?  I have tried clicking the other repetitions off but it still attempts to play those slots which now have no sample.  I have read the entire VI PRO manual and the repetition portion of the manual didn't help.

If I just play the expressive sample in realtime on my keyboard it will play the 1st sample repetition slot.  It just won't do it for this passage.  It's almost as if it considers the note before it, since it's the same pitch as note 1.  Even though it's a different sample.

I have all of the latest software and tested this on 2 computers at home, and now one at the office and it's exactly the same behavior in all 3 computers.

Thanks,

Maestro2be

Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 128GB RAM, AMD 3970X 32-core
Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme, Radeon RX 5500 XT
Studio One 4.6, Cubase 10.5, Nuendo 10
RME Multiface 2, All NVMe SSD Drives (OS & Samples)
Posted on Wed, Mar 19 2014 02:40
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1053

Since I can repeat this 100% in any DAW I try, with a new or old project I have sent a request to VSL to figure this out.

Thanks,

Maestro2be

Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 128GB RAM, AMD 3970X 32-core
Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme, Radeon RX 5500 XT
Studio One 4.6, Cubase 10.5, Nuendo 10
RME Multiface 2, All NVMe SSD Drives (OS & Samples)
Posted on Mon, Mar 31 2014 16:28
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720

Not sure if you found a solution?

I have tried your sequence with the articulations you described and it plays as expected with the first repetition sounding on the VC sus Vib-espr.

I have come across similar issues in the past when I haven't been able to get the first repetition to play but have never really found what was the cause. Sometimes altering the interval threshold had an effect sometimes just using a new channel and VI-Pro plug-in resolved it.

Sorry I can't help further.

Julian

Posted on Mon, Mar 31 2014 16:55
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1053

Hi Julian,

I never did find a solution and VSL said it should have worked perfectly the way I was doing it.  The only way I found to fix it was to play the note on a second track in a separate instance of VI PRO.  Which is exactly what you said you had to do before as well.

Thanks for offering some assistance though as your idea was what I did and allowed me to finish the project.

Maestro2be

Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 128GB RAM, AMD 3970X 32-core
Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme, Radeon RX 5500 XT
Studio One 4.6, Cubase 10.5, Nuendo 10
RME Multiface 2, All NVMe SSD Drives (OS & Samples)
Posted on Mon, Mar 31 2014 17:22
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4620

cgernaey wrote:

Start with an F#3 using the regular legato - 01 VC_perf-legato

Then play a B3 using - 02 VC_dyn-me_Vib_3s  (keep the two notes connected legato style, no note gaps)

Now play another B3 but change sample to 14 VC_sus_Vib-espr (there should be no overlap of these two notes, as it's a re-bowing)

That B3 expressive sample will begin on the second repetition, instead of playing the 1st.

 

As far as I understand this description the behaviour of the VI is correct in that case.

The "First" repetition of the  sus_Vib-espr patch is a Startingnote and should not be triggered when any note was performed before (especially on the same key).

By the way you don't need any additional instance of a VI to force any repetition note manually. Just copy the patch in a dedicated cell and deactivate any repetition you don't need. For patches which do not force the 1st repetition to avoid triggering a startingnote (like the suspatches) you can "Alt + Click" on the first repetition button which alters the reptition behaviour to normal cycle mode. The "1" inside thebutton will dissapear.

best

Herb

Posted on Mon, Mar 31 2014 17:49
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
cgernaey wrote:
Which is exactly what you said you had to do before as well.

Well this wasn't quite what happenned. Usig a new instance allowed me to play the whole sequence (on that instance) with the starting note playing normally.

Also Herb, I would have thought when a patch change is keyswitched the first sample played in that new patch should be a starting note regardless of any previous note that has played? This is the behaviour i find when using VI-Pro.

Julian

Posted on Mon, Mar 31 2014 18:50
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1053
julian wrote:
cgernaey wrote:
Which is exactly what you said you had to do before as well.

Also Herb, I would have thought when a patch change is keyswitched the first sample played in that new patch should be a starting note regardless of any previous note that has played? This is the behaviour i find when using VI-Pro.

Julian

 

 This is how I would like to see it work and thought it would work since the 2 samples were completely different samples in two different cells.

Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 128GB RAM, AMD 3970X 32-core
Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme, Radeon RX 5500 XT
Studio One 4.6, Cubase 10.5, Nuendo 10
RME Multiface 2, All NVMe SSD Drives (OS & Samples)
Posted on Mon, Mar 31 2014 19:38
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4620
cgernaey wrote:
 This is how I would like to see it work and thought it would work since the 2 samples were completely different samples in two different cells.

VI is calculating always on key basis indepedently if there is any patch switching, which enables to avoid starting notes when switching to patches where the first note is a starting note. 

This system is much more live keyboard performance friendly.

best

Herb

Posted on Mon, Mar 31 2014 19:54
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1053
herb wrote:

VI is calculating always on key basis indepedently if there is any patch switching, which enables to avoid starting notes when switching to patches where the first note is a starting note. 

This system is much more live keyboard performance friendly.

best

Herb

 

Thanks Herb for that clarification.  It is amazing how after so long of using something, you always come across some pattern you have never used or an issue you have never seen :).  Now I will know from now on that note repitition takes precedence over sample change.  That's good information I never knew.

Maestro2be

Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 128GB RAM, AMD 3970X 32-core
Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme, Radeon RX 5500 XT
Studio One 4.6, Cubase 10.5, Nuendo 10
RME Multiface 2, All NVMe SSD Drives (OS & Samples)
Posted on Mon, Mar 31 2014 20:20
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720
herb wrote:
cgernaey wrote:
 This is how I would like to see it work and thought it would work since the 2 samples were completely different samples in two different cells.

VI is calculating always on key basis indepedently if there is any patch switching, which enables to avoid starting notes when switching to patches where the first note is a starting note. 

This system is much more live keyboard performance friendly.

best

Herb

Hi Herb,

My understanding is that if you play a note in an articulation, then switch to a new articulation and play the same note again the new articulation will play a starting note even if the repeated notes is legato. This is the behaviour that I see when I use VI-Pro in Logic.

It is just that what you describe above appears to contradict this. I set up the sequence that cgernaey described in the initial post, the final B3 expressive sample definitely plays a starting note. So by changing articulation the note sequence is always reset to play a starting note regardless of what has played before.

Julian

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