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velocity x-fade and expression CC
Last post Wed, Mar 26 2014 by mohurwitzmusic, 9 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Mar 24 2014 21:31
by szawadzkipiano
Joined on Mon, May 06 2013, Posts 27
Hello there.
I would like to ask you if it's a good idea to have assigned Expression CC and Velocity X-fade to the same CC?
Then I can achieve variable timbre depending on the loudness of the sound and wide dynamics (from 0 to the maximum, which is not possible with only velocity x-fade).
Now I have both velocity x-fade and expression assigned to one CC , so they have always the same value.
Is it good way, or you can recommend other better techniques?
Posted on Mon, Mar 24 2014 21:52
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1956

Velocity X-fade deals with instruments with the layers (and there are not typically that many), so it acts on those [numbers], where there is the actual change to the next layer. So you're relying on coincidence of the value of 'expression' felicitously corresponding with the other thing. I don't think it's a great idea, no.


Apple M1 - Mac OS 14
Posted on Mon, Mar 24 2014 22:06
by szawadzkipiano
Joined on Mon, May 06 2013, Posts 27
So, what would be better?
How to control x-fade i the best way?
Posted on Mon, Mar 24 2014 22:55
by Casiquire
Joined on Sat, May 01 2010, Posts 325

I control the crossfade with the modwheel, but then I usually raise the dynamic range slider so that loud notes sound even louder and quiet notes sound even quieter.  The effect would be far too pronounced if you had Expression tied in to that--the loud notes would be full volume and then the quiet notes would be completely inaudible.

Posted on Tue, Mar 25 2014 01:01
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1956

Frankly I think on this forum velocity cross-fade is highly overrated. It's a few layers where, instead of using velocity, you would access the layers by a controller. Now, I'm using solo instruments almost exclusively. Here I find this controller less than meaningful. I use velocity.

A thick ensemble texture does something more pronounced in a layer crossfade. Its value lies more in long durations and a swell, IME. Per particular note-ons I think velocity suffices.


Apple M1 - Mac OS 14
Posted on Tue, Mar 25 2014 16:24
by Dominique
Joined on Fri, Aug 08 2008, Posts 181

Combining expression and velocity cross-fade is most probably too much. As suggested, increase the DynR (=dynamic range) slider! It will give you better results. I tend to use velocity cross-fade for longer notes (legato, sustain etc.), and switch it off for short notes (staccato, spiccato...).

Posted on Tue, Mar 25 2014 22:20
by Casiquire
Joined on Sat, May 01 2010, Posts 325

I have to disagree with Civilization, a crossfade adds an essential layer of expression when used well, especially in MIR which is brilliant at sort of washing out the effects of phasing.  With solo instruments, I can't imagine using the flute, clarinet, or solo strings without some crossfading.  There are some instruments that might suffer a bit more from crossfading like the oboe but overall it's necessary IMO.

Posted on Tue, Mar 25 2014 23:28
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1956

Yeah, I'm not trying to wash out things, particulary a solo. I want to hear detail; we're talking about tonal changes but you want to hide behind reverb.

I think for a solo instrument it's not only not de rigeur, it tends to be a bad idea owing to the phasing. The change in tone is availed to us through the change in velocity. I found zero necessity for it in solo instruments (it doesn't suit me, I use velocity and these two approaches disagree, it isn't useful to me), and wasted quite some time following this kind of advice in these fora.

And again I think there is a hazard of placebo effect believing in it. I think crossfading velocity layers is indicated for, designed for long notes in ensembles. There are other tricks for solo insts, dynamics patches particularly which can be stretched/shrunk, and give the actual response as recorded, which has to be more genuine.


Apple M1 - Mac OS 14
Posted on Wed, Mar 26 2014 00:36
by mohurwitzmusic
Joined on Tue, Sep 07 2010, Posts 297

I just want to second civilization 3 on this. Much smoother sound without it and a more tightly controlled dynamic range. I have pretty much stopped using it. Use the dynamics patches.

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Lemur touch controllers for composers and music producers.
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