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Harmon Mute
Last post Tue, Oct 01 2019 by PaoloT, 15 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Apr 24 2014 16:10
by l52
Joined on Mon, Apr 16 2012, Posts 98
Hi,

It would also be useful to have a Bb trumpet with harmon mute .... think it will be available?


..... if no .. do you know where can I found it?
Posted on Sat, Apr 26 2014 00:02
by Babe
Joined on Thu, Jul 15 2010, Posts 54
Both Chris Hein Horns and SM The Trumpet have harmon mutes.
Mac Pro
OS 10.12.3
Posted on Sat, Apr 26 2014 06:38
by l52
Joined on Mon, Apr 16 2012, Posts 98
I have the trumpet in Bb, ( no trumpet in C) ... and there is not a sample, with the Harmon Mute ...

do you know Where can I found Trpt_Bb + Harmon?

thnaks
Posted on Sun, Apr 27 2014 00:56
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5513

A Harmon mute was used on the VSL C trumpet muted samples.  There is not too much audible difference between C trumpet and Bflat trumpet when they are muted - especially with a Harmon mute.

Posted on Sun, Apr 27 2014 14:43
by l52
Joined on Mon, Apr 16 2012, Posts 98
it seems to me that the only muted trumpet in VSL is muted with straight not with harmon, or am I wrong?

can you help me to found it?
Posted on Sun, Apr 27 2014 15:58
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5513

No, the original mutes in the C trumpet are definitely  Harmon and NOT straight mutes.  I know what a Harmon mute is.  They were not listed in the sample directory as Harmon mutes, and this actually caused some problems for some people who wanted a more commonly used mute which is a straight mute.  I have the complete C trumpet samples - which are still the best trumpet samples ever done by an incredible virtuoso player - and the muted samples are done with a Harmon mute.    

If you get the complete C trumpet you will get those samples.

Posted on Sun, Apr 27 2014 17:20
by jhstrong
Joined on Tue, Aug 16 2011, Las Vegas, NV, USA, Posts 99

From the product page:

"Although the sound of the trumpet is usually associated with majestic, powerful fanfares, the classical and soft “straight muted” timbre of this Trumpet in C not only blends well with ensembles of woodwinds and strings, but is also perfectly suited for lyrical melodic solo lines. All articulations have been recorded with a custom made damper that has been specifically modified in order to meet the high sonic standards of Vienna's highly acclaimed “Silent Stage” recordings."

Are you sure it's a Harmon mute?  Not to cause a fuss, but I'm actually curious to know that is meant by "custom made damper."

Posted on Sun, Apr 27 2014 17:38
by l52
Joined on Mon, Apr 16 2012, Posts 98
thanks for your help
Posted on Sun, Apr 27 2014 19:13
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5513

I remembered the discussion on this quite some time ago and it was identified as a Harmon mute,  and it sounds just like a Harmon mute. Though I could always be delusional.    Maybe it is a custom made one but like a Harmon?  You could definitely use it as a Harmon mute though.  I remember it actually sounded wrong for what I was using because I was trying to do a straight mute part.  At least traditionally, straight mutes were always used in orchestral trumpet parts, and Harmon were used mainly in jazz, so it was odd that the muted C trumpet was a Harmon-sounding one.   Anyway I guess VSL has to say.

Posted on Mon, Apr 28 2014 06:48
by michi
Joined on Sun, Dec 22 2002, vienna, Posts 516

To be honest, I've no idea who placed the rumor about the harmon mute on the Trumpet C. At the time we've recorded this library we were looking for a good muted sound for this instrument for an orchestral context and, of course, not the "Miles Davis" style. We've made some adjustments at the mute to avoid unwanted frequences and noises. For more choices of straight mute sounds we've recorded the Trumpet Bb mute as well.  

 

I believe that our demos could give you the right picture, how our muted trumpets could sound:

Trumpet C mute

Trumpet Bb mute

 

 

All the best, Michael Hula

 

 

Posted on Mon, Apr 28 2014 17:58
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5513

Michael, thanks for clearing up the facts concerning the VSL Urban Legend Harmon Mute. 

Posted on Tue, Mar 21 2017 01:57
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 707

While looking around for muted trumpet sounds, I examined the muted trumpet (solo and ensemble) from VSL. While it might not be a Harmon mute, it sounds like it. Probably, customizing it made it change the sound to something more similar to a Harmon mute than a straight one.

Just for comparison, listen to the Trumpet Sonata by Halsey Stevens in both the VSL and real players version. You can hear how different the mute trumpet sound is (the one in the real players version is the mute I'm accustomed to hear in real orchestras).

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Brass_I/TrumpetC_muted#!Demos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yu7MI80Db8

This is the same for trombone. The sound is more of the 'funny' variety, than of the subdued, far-sounding one required by composers when invoking 'con sord.'. I whish a more standard straight mute sound appears, both in the Full and the Special Edition libraries. I would like to have a VSL straight mute sound.

Paolo

Posted on Tue, Oct 01 2019 04:11
by Fredonia Electroacoustic Music Studio
Joined on Fri, Sep 18 2015, New York, Posts 1

I would love to have a response from the VSL team regarding the last post by Paolo--Years ago, when I first taught the VSL library, we got to the trumpet, and I immediately thought there was an error--that the muted trumpet was not only a harmon mute, but one without the stem (yes, like Miles). This isn't an urban legend, but many of us brass players **immediately** hear harmon when hearing the VSL muted trumpet sound.

I've never posted anything regarding this and only see this thread now because I searched the web for "VSL trumpet harmon"--because I assumed there was an error based on hearing the samples. I understand it's possible that a straight mute was used for the recording and that by removing , but this _sounds_ like a harmon mute--every trumpet player I've shown this to has said the same thing. I asked what kind of mute is this without saying anything about this topic. EVERY one of them answered harmon. Separately.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, since I teach this to the entire film scoring class here every year. I always have students use a different trumpet library if they want realistic straight mutes. Thanks!

Paul Coleman

Fredonia Electroacoustic Music Studio
State University of New York at Fredonia
Posted on Tue, Oct 01 2019 11:59
by michi
Joined on Sun, Dec 22 2002, vienna, Posts 516

For the muted C-Trumpet we've made some adjustments at the mute to avoid unwanted frequences and noises.

For the muted Bb Trumpet as well as for the Vienna Dimension BrassII Trumpets we've used straight mutes without any changes.

I hope that helps!

Best, Michael 

Posted on Tue, Oct 01 2019 21:27
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 707
The nice thing is that now we have both types of mute. Nobody will see the shape of the mute being used, and if it sounds right, it just works!

Paolo
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