Doesn't matter what the articulations are, if:

1. The library is out of tune
2. Flawed in conception
3. Badly edited

I think good QA is far more important.

DG

There really is only a need for expansion packs if the initial content is not complete. VSL releases a full arsenal of articulations.  

I thought the whole point of the VEPro and VI Pro line of software was to give the user more control over the sample e.g. time stretching, scale editor, sequencer, Humanization etc.

Sometimes more is less.  If you have numerous articulations with numerous variations, then a simple string quintet could be a tedious undertaking when you're just trying to string together a simple legato line.  How would these variations be triggered? keyswitches? Modwheel? Velocity?  Things could get very confusing.  It kind of drains all the fun out of composing with VSL

However, I've always argued for more velocity layers for the Bosendorfer

Hello DG,

Thank you for your clear answers, I see you are a member since 2004 so I would like to ask you if you could help me find a solution towards 3 problems I have.

Taking my Solo String 1 Library for example. I use it together with VI Pro and Mir Pro getting very nice sounds. I pretty much use up alot of matrixes and all articulations. Also I make extensive use of all parameters in VI Pro. The problem im facing however is:

2) Slurred legatos work for medium fast but not very fast passages. Same goes for portamentos. If I stretch it down I can hardly recognize it as a slide anymore. Probably has something to do with the attack, not sure.

3) Long notes with vibrato sound fake if held too long. Any suggestions? I really wanted to create an evolving and expressive sound similar to pfp 2s patch. What I already do is non-vibrato to vibrato but vibrato to more expressive vibrato doesnt seem to be possible due to phasing. Do you have any idea how I can achieve a really romantic vibrato combo with solo violins?

4) Velocity levels, only 2 for legato. the forte (?) sounds good but with time it gets too monotone. The piano level is hardly noticable, a mp / mf patch is missing. I could use the in built low pass filter and reduce it a little but that destroys alot of the essential frequencies and I dont really want to use it too much. A better alternative I often use (in kontakt) is "EQ automation" via note expression which gives great results for faking dynamics... since VSL is dry surgical eq modification note per note would give incredible results.... in VI Pro I cant do that. Using normal automation is not an option and very tiresome as it wont move with the notes.

All of those problems you mention are specifically because you are
talking about a solo instrument. I was specifically talking about ensemble libraries, because those were the examples you gave.

In
all other solo libraries (with the exception of Sample Modeling) you
will find exactly the same problems. There are reasons for this, and
whilst there is another Solo String product on the market that will
help with some of your problems, it creates many others of its own, so
still wouldn't be satisfactory.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure that having a gazillion
articulations would solve all or even most of those problems when you're
talking about a solo string instrument. I think that strings are
inherently so complicated to play that to try to get a traditional sample library to be completely realistic is not going to happen.

DG

For what it's worth, I have spent so many years trying to get VSL Solo Strings to sound as good as a real player that it has become obvious to me it's an impossible thing to create.  Unless the part is so basic and so minimal, and then also only spands a few measures I can pull it off.  But if I expect to pull off more than that, I have revert to hiring a real solo player.  I tried for 3 months to get a simple performance to sound strikingly realistic but in one day, I accomplished this with a real player and a small amount of cash.

I do find the solo strings great for fast, shorter note stuff though such as classical Bach and other musical literature that doesn't require extremely expressive long notes, or dynamic moments.  They are amazing to layer with as well.  They have a beautiful raw sound to them.

I know that great things can be done with the solo strings but even being the best ones you can buy on the planet, they have limitations and as Daryl said, I can't even imagine what it would take to recreate that type of performance.  Perhaps a Sample Modeling type string instrument but the problem is, it's far more difficult to create a sample modeled string instrument than say a brass or wind styled instrument.  It would take much skill to operate a sampled instrument of a Violin and create a perfect performance that contains every aspect of a top notch world class player (which is what our expectations are/would be).  Also, how much time do you have to edit and edit and tweak?  If you have unlimited time, and devote yourself to perfecting it, even more possibility opens up to you but it's often hard to remember the vast amount of possibilities that are already available, let alone add a gazillion more options that I will forget are there.

I am happy with them for what they are, but they simply cannot replace a real player (and honestly, I am glad for this to save all of our musician friends).

Maestro2be

I think same after first listen to demos. And after about half year from release this library is unusable due to bad programming.

IE: for a solo instrument I do not velocity xfade, I think there is zero point to it. For a section, reinforcements and cancellations of phase are what happens. So where it occurs in velo xfade it's somewhat related to reality.

I don't think VSL can't be surpassed but I don't think OT is where this is going to happen. In terms of winds, Sample Modeling is the next evolutionary step. I'm not a great strings maven, but I think modeling of instrument behaviors applies, but the sound of strings is a different problem than brass or silver.

And that you're reading the marketing drivel by 8Dio quite uncritically; you see them go on about how they've solved the crossfading issue (no), and then this 'vibrato' purely through these devices of pitch/LFO as in synthesizers is the way to go. It's not exactly revolutionary.

If I can't be persuaded by demos...

Hello everybody, 

Of course we appreciate your personal opinion in this forum, but let´s try to keep insulting phrases, both on a personal level and about software products, out of this discussion. 

Everybody in this business is doing their best to follow what they feel is right, and the diversity makes the scene as interesting as it is.

Thanks, 

Paul

I just wanted to add something here about the relationship between the complex issues of realism and sustained notes. It is on sustained notes that one is more likely to become aware of the vibrato in the sample repeating - which sounds unrealistic. Awhile ago I questioned whether it would be possible for VSL to create a vibrato equivalent of the global humanize function in VPro. The thread is here:

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/36559/224706.aspx#224706

There wasn't much response to this and no word from anyone at VSL as to what they thought of it.

To recap, my suggestion was to start with a non-vibrato sample. The software could be triggered by any note long enough for the vibrato to be audible (starting at a couple of seconds?). The software would apply random types of vibrato to the single sample. The humanize software already includes five types of vibrato. This would mean avoiding the need to do more recording and create more samples, and the software would be added to VPro.

This isn't meant to cure all the issues to do with achieving realism but I think it would make a big difference - especially on a solo violin line.