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Vienna Suite Equalizer or Fabfilter Q?
Last post Thu, May 22 2014 by andyjh, 13 replies.
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Posted on Tue, May 13 2014 16:15
by Rolf_Music
Joined on Tue, Feb 05 2013, Posts 82

Which of the two sound better in your opinion? Im planning to buy Vienna Suite, thats why. Currently im using the default cubase EQ plugins.

Posted on Tue, May 13 2014 17:42
by Casiquire
Joined on Sat, May 01 2010, Posts 325

I wish I could compare, but I only have FabFilter.  It's pretty awesome with little extras like allowing you to only EQ the middle, or the left or right, etc.  Tons of hotkeys.  Vienna Suite's EQ has a lot of presets specifically for VSL instruments if I understand correctly so it might be a faster option there.  Both programs are available for demo, so why not try them out and see for yourself?

Posted on Tue, May 13 2014 21:07
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

I have both of these EQ's,  and as they are both transparent in character (no distortion that is), it's not a case of which one sounds better,  but perhaps which one has the most functionality.


And although a great supporter of everything VSL,  I have to say that Fabfilter Pro-Q is the more flexible EQ, as I do prefer to be able to process left and right separately as well as MS mode. 

But Vienna EQ is not available as a separate plug in, only as a part of Vienna Suite  so Vienna Suite and Pro-Q cannot be compared directly.

Posted on Wed, May 14 2014 13:53
by GoranTch
Joined on Tue, Mar 14 2006, Berlin, Germany, Posts 524

Can't speak for the Fabfilter as I don't have it, but Vienna Suite Equalizers sound very, very good to my ears. There is also what is imo an absolutely invaluable bonus coming with the VS Equalizer - the myriad of tailored EQing presets which really make a difference when it comes to equalizing VSL instruments (especially for users with no or very limited experience with equalization).

Posted on Tue, May 20 2014 07:32
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1747

The advantages of both EQs:

The Sutie Effect EQ

- comes with a huge amount of presets for vienna instruments

- max Q = 10

- has a very low CPU consumption, nevertheless it sounds transparent

- good for general tasks in each track (low cut, some instrument corrections)

The Fabfilter EQ

- comes with some general presets

- has a low - high* CPU consumption

- *also can be used in linear mode (more than one)

- very high Qs are possible (Q = 40)

- M/S treatments

- very flexible in using different filters

- a lot of filters are possible per unit (24)

- very good for sound corrections tasks in each track (low cut, some instrument corrections)

- very good for mastering (linear mode)

- very neutral sound (not warm, no analog/passiv sound - simply neutral)

I use both: In each track a VSL EQ for low cutting and easy track corrections.

In sums or when I need more complicated corrections (also M/S) I use Fabfilter.

For musical sound corrections (more warmth etc.) I use neither VSL nor FAB-Filter.

I have to mention that I never use VSL-EQs with my real recordings because I feel that they take away a bit the warmth of the recorded music.

I only use the FabfilterEQ and musically EQs. Keep in mind that there are EQs which cost the price of the whole SUITE EFFECTS.

This doesn't mean that the VSL-EQs are bad. No, that means "the right tool for the right task".

So the question "VSL or Fabfilter?" can be answerd by: Buy both, because both of them have their advantages.

Best

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Tue, May 20 2014 10:37
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7796

An EQ which supplies "warmth" is most certainly distorting and thus generating new harmonics. This might or might not be what you actually want to happen.

Personally I suggest to work with Vienna Suite's "Master EQ" whenever possible. The stripped-down channel EQ is ideal for those situations where CPU performance is an issue, but usually the Master EQ's internal upsampling algorithm alone is worth the small overhead it generates. Add the possibility to switch between three different parametric EQ modes*) and the two additional Low and High Shelving EQ, and you will understand its benefits.

As a freelancing mixing engineer I know a lot of EQs on most available platforms (and quite a few hardware-based models - both analogue and digital) , and even if I would have no relation to VSL whatsoever, Vienna Suite's Master EQ would be my first choice for most equalizing tasks (... unless I want to hear a typical "colour" like from an API, Harrison or a Neve).

*) As a rule of thumb, you can look at the "A"-curves as the "all purpose" curve for the upper frequency range, the "B" is better suited for the "bass"-range up to about 1 kHz, while "C" is your average "clean" EQ algorithm. 

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, May 20 2014 13:00
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

It always seems a contradiction of terms to me, when "warmth" is used to describe the saturation/distortion of a plug in.  As saturation is distortion which means added harmonics, so calling something "warm" when extra harmonics are added, which actually makes it brighter because of the extra harmonics.  Of course this "exciter" effect can be a nice improvement,  but just seems a bit wrong to call this warmth.


A transformer coupled stage or analogue tape that rolls of upper frequencies is perhaps a better example of "warmth".


So it seems "warmth" is now a generic term used to mean anything that is not transparent, even though that could be a lot of upper harmonic distortion


as for Fabfilter or Vienna Suite,  I agree with Beat - you need them both !  But if you can only have one and you use VSL,  then maybe Vienna Suite should be the first option.

Posted on Tue, May 20 2014 17:43
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1747
Dietz wrote:
An EQ which supplies "warmth" is most certainly distorting and thus generating new harmonics. This might or might not be what you actually want to happen.

We are speaking about PlugIns and all of them are counting bits and calculate with them. And of course each developper uses its own programs for getting the EQ-Effect. Indeed, some of them are emulating real (old) hardware - and they obviously do this job better and better.

For me only counts the result. However the developpers reach their aims some EQs can treat the tight heights of strings in a better way than others for example.

In my opinion the VSL EQs stand more for clean and colourless sounds here.

So once more: Buy the VSL SUITE Effects (EQs). You do absolutely nothing wrong and you also get fantastic Convolution Reverbs, a PowerPanner and more valuable effects.

So the VSL SUITE EFFECTS are worth every single cent.

But also: I personally wouldn't like to miss some third'party EQ-PlugIns for my mixing tasks.

The best thing is of course to have lots of good tools on hand...

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Tue, May 20 2014 18:30
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7796

I get the feeling that my message upset you somehow, Beat. Sorry for that.

For the sake of better understanding - I wrote:

Dietz wrote:
[...]

Personally I suggest to work with Vienna Suite's "Master EQ" whenever possible. The stripped-down channel EQ is ideal for those situations where CPU performance is an issue, but usually the Master EQ's internal upsampling algorithm alone is worth the small overhead it generates.[...]

What I meant to say was: I prefer Vienna Suite's Master EQ to the smaller channel EQ, for the reasons mentioned above. Of course I use other tools than Vienna Suite plug-ins for equalizing, too.

Best,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, May 21 2014 07:45
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1747
Dietz wrote:
I get the feeling that my message upset you somehow, Beat. Sorry for that.

Hello Dietz

Thanks for being so sensitive

You turned my "warm EQs" into "distortion EQs" which is probably correct - but which a general forum reader could translate as "bad EQ" as well (who wants distortion? Certainly nobody).

After that statement you advertised your Master EQ... (no problem in this forum by the way Wink )

So my second post only was for saving those "warm EQs".

... but I'm not upset.

Sunny greetings from Switzerland to Vienna

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Wed, May 21 2014 10:04
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7796
Beat Kaufmann wrote:
[...]

You turned my "warm EQs" into "distortion EQs" which is probably correct - but which a general forum reader could translate as "bad EQ" as well (who wants distortion? Certainly nobody).

[...]

Well - I do! Like I wrote many times before: Distortion is your friend! (... you just have to know hopw to use it ;-) ...)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, May 22 2014 06:07
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

I like a little distortion too.  But Dietz is right, you do have to know how to use it.  Perhaps Beat is thinking distortion in terms of clipping and yes that would not be desirable.

I find that a wee bit of distortion in Strings, especially high strings, Brass and sometimes choirs can sprinkle some sugar in a sound.  Also, if you crank up the distortion in a harpsichord it sounds like a twangy Telecaster guitar which has Rock/Pop applications.  The harp makes a nice sound when properly distorted as well.

Oh! I almost forgot, some distrotion in percussive instruments like a bass drum or low timpani can bring those instruments out from the crowd.  Of course, there are other ways of doing this but distortion colors the sound a bit. 

Greetings from Sunny Arizona Cool to enchanting Vienna Wilted Flower and glorious Switzerland Angel


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Thu, May 22 2014 10:59
by andyjh
Joined on Wed, Dec 15 2010, Posts 600

 I can feel the guys at VSL cringing at the thought of anyone distorting their pristine accuarate sample library !

Tens of thousand of Euros spent on mics, preamps and processing to achieve pure 24-bit accurate fidelity - and then we deliberately distort it all !

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