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Posted on Wed, May 14 2014 11:38
by molemac_824
Joined on Fri, Jan 31 2003, London, Posts 87

I have just upgraded to the new mac pro using ve pro in standalone because I have a large template and work on many cues at once so its just easier to have all the sounds/samples set up in 1 standalone . I have completed 1 series working like this on my 2009 Imac and internal 7200 drive but had to set the standalone buffer size to 1024 which is not ideal . I bought the mac pro and installed 3 1gig ssd drives on a blackmagic multidock thinking I would then be able to drop the buffer size down to 256 at least . Sadly this is not the case . I am still getting major crackles at 256 and even some at 512 without that much going on . In fact just playing a fast run on a  berlinWW exp B clarinet(solo cl leg)  at 256 causes breakup. I tested this with logic , loading the same sound directly into logic and I am able to go down to 128 without issues. I have experimented with all the different combinations of thread allocation in ve pro and Kontakt and logic but it seems to make very little difference . ( for instance I have 12 cores , have tried 2 on logic , 10 on ve pro , and off on Kontact . or 2 logic 4 on kontakt and 6 on ve pro etc )

I guess the question I have is  whether the engine on the standalone not good enough to work this way and would I be better off with the server for working at lower latencies ?

I dont like using the server even decoupled because it makes life much easier just having 1 master standalone that can be updated easily just adding new midi tracks to the `Daw and for instance switching from logic to cubase as I am now ( cant stand logic X after 25 years of being a notator, logic person ) If I have to revert to an old cue from last year on logic 9 my setup will still work because all there is in logic is the midi.

I suppose there are other hosts like mainstage I could try but I really like the ve pro mixer and I am wedded to it now because this is the 3rd year of the series I am working on .

Forgot to mention that I use the IAC midi driver 

Any thoughts much appreciated

Charlie

Mac pro late 2013 osx 10.9.2 Rme  UFX fireface usb logic X 10.0.7 

Charlie
Posted on Thu, May 15 2014 15:49
by bartoszidzi
Joined on Fri, Jan 19 2007, Posts 12

Are these 'crackles' disk-bound by any means? What does the disk meter in kontakt say?

I say for the best latency, go full house and switch to cubase/w/windows7 the best combo for low latency there is. Sad truth.

Posted on Thu, May 15 2014 16:23
by molemac_824
Joined on Fri, Jan 31 2003, London, Posts 87

It seems its actually a Kontact 5.3 issue having spoken to Orchestral tools , because it is mainly the Berlin Exp winds that cause the crackles.( they claim v5.2 is ok ) no activiity in Kontakt Disk meter but the odd spike in cpu .

Having said that sounds like you are right about cubase and windows , goddamit . Wish I had known before buying the mac . 

Charlie
Posted on Thu, May 15 2014 16:33
by bartoszidzi
Joined on Fri, Jan 19 2007, Posts 12

yeah, i'm in the same boat. but on a mac pro 2009. Demoing Cubase 7.5 now ,and i have to say, it is much more organized than logic x. Logic X makes me think that it's another facelift of the same old program, with the same old problems. Even with huge update list for 10.0.7 it seems like they're still patching the old core (like the CC7/CC10 preference setting) It's a mess. Once you use Cubase your brain takes a rest and concentrates on music instead of jumping thru the software hoops . Good luck! 

Posted on Thu, May 15 2014 16:50
by molemac_824
Joined on Fri, Jan 31 2003, London, Posts 87

+1 for cubase , I agree 100% . Apple have screwed up logic x , cant stand to even look at it after 30 years . Have started on cubase  which is not a massive learning curve and will switch despite being mid series. However that doesnt help my crackle issues because I am only using the daw for midi .

Charlie
Posted on Thu, May 15 2014 20:44
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1658

Well, I see you're using a standalone via the IAC. I think that is not going to perform as well as the server without that extraneous moving part, using a low-latency audio interface on the DAW end.

I don't get why you believe that a single instance of the standalone is that much more convenient than a single instance of the decoupled server.
One expectation you have is based here, you want to have every known thing all loaded at once and low latency. "Makes life easier", evidently not, you are having issues that could be managed better. You have something in mind that doesn't seem to be working so maybe you need to adjust to your situation some. The server is what's made for low latency DAW work. It should perform a lot better than just plugging instruments into a DAW. Although I have not used it with Logic.

With the machine in my signature, Cubase 5.5.3, I don't have crackles at 512 in the buffer with 'not a lot going on'. I start projects often at 128 and latency I can do drums by, or even 64, and add latency as the project's demands grow organically, as the load grows. Horses for courses.

Cubase is definitely lower latency on windows. I bought Logic and DP behind this [Cubase/Core Audio] latency problem but for me VE Pro has obviated any need to use those hosts.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.6
VE Pro 7
Posted on Thu, May 15 2014 23:08
by molemac_824
Joined on Fri, Jan 31 2003, London, Posts 87

The reason I use standalone is so that I can route all the outputs via adat to another computer which runs protools . It is like having a virtual mixing desk . I can then just press record in protools and all my midi is stemmed in one pass ready for mixing . The beatuy is then I can mix a whole tv episode or movie in one protools session and the cues only have to be mixed once moreor less in terms of applying plug ins etc . ie The celeste always comes out of the same audio chanel rather than loading a seperate logic song for each cue and having to reapply settings. When you have to mix 30/40 cues per episdode evry two weeks it all helps . Mixing that anount of midi in logic can take forever.

I could work in server mode and reroute everything back to logic and then out again but its more messy ( especially the way logics mixer now works) . In terms of workflow I seemed to have found the culprit in Berlin winds exp so as long as I use them sparingly until Kontakt is fixed  all is well and I can have a massive template at 256 with no issues. Having said that , seems like a pc with cubase is the way to go .

Charlie
Posted on Sat, May 17 2014 18:21
by molemac_824
Joined on Fri, Jan 31 2003, London, Posts 87

Very good news , Mac osx 10.9.3 has fixed the crackling issues . I can now play berlin WW exp on Ve pro 5 standalone without issues ar 256 in a large template .

Charlie
Posted on Sat, May 17 2014 18:42
by bartoszidzi
Joined on Fri, Jan 19 2007, Posts 12

great news! so you use cubase with ve pro ensemble standalone and iac ports? how many instances do you manage to run and what is your memory footprint?

Posted on Sun, May 18 2014 05:53
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1658

Well, I definitely feel you on the Logic thing, it's pretty convoluted to use VE Pro and Logic. I use VE Pro to mix, Cubase is just a waystation for me mostly in terms of printing the end result. I don't know how it could be a lot worse using Cubase in OSX than that latency, although for straight plugins, one at a time Logic should be far faster (than Cubase, not than a VE Pro situation*).

Interesting that 9.3 addressed this. * I'm fairly confident your IAC->standalone is not the best use though. Yet, 256 in a large template is quite good I think, all things considered.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.6
VE Pro 7
Posted on Mon, May 19 2014 15:04
by molemac_824
Joined on Fri, Jan 31 2003, London, Posts 87

Actually I haven't made complete switch yet and I'm using Logic 10.0 .7 but just for MIDI so it shouldn't make any difference Cubase or not. I have 32 GB of RAM loaded so far in vepro standalone in one computer at 256 buffer with about 20 kontakts and a few Vienna instruments .

I would be interested to know if there is an alternative to IAC bus that has less latency or jitter ( apart from Ve pros own midi input which is only for server use) 

Charlie
Posted on Fri, May 23 2014 21:41
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1658

molemac_824 wrote:
in vepro standalone in one computer at 256 buffer with about 20 kontakts and a few Vienna instruments
I had something much larger in mind with 'large'. but that's kind of comparable more or less with me using Cubase in Snow Leopard and VE Pro servers.

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.6
VE Pro 7
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