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EW (small) products in VEP5
Last post Thu, Jul 10 2014 by Cyril Blanc, 28 replies.
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Posted on Sat, May 31 2014 16:13
by Shawn Gibson
Joined on Tue, Sep 23 2008, Toronto, Posts 187

Hi guys. Thanks to Bernd, my system finally seems to be running flawlessly. I admit, I'm a network dummy.

The only issues I'm having now are when my EW slave tries to play certain thing (EW voices), it works for a moment or two, then the next run though, there's nothing there, just silence. No crashes or errors, just silence.

I'm speaking of VoP and SC/VOTA. These are the only voices I have and they are incredibly inspirational, so when they die, it's very off-putting.

I'm running the latest Play. Does anyone know if this is a known issue, and if there is a fix?

I've had so many issues with EW and their "support" or lack thereof, that I want to ditch everything, but unfortunately that will take me time for funds, so I'd like to try and make the products work for now.

When I do have the funds to switch to something else for voices, I will FedEx my EW DVDs back to them with some cat poop in the package. Geesh. OK not really, but I'd like to:)

Eternal Nube with a passion for all-things VSL.
Posted on Sun, Jun 01 2014 06:07
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2658

I have put my EW QLSC in my DAW and I send the Audio to VEP, this works fine

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Jun 05 2014 07:07
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1567

I have lots of problems with my EW Symphonic Voices.  So much so I just record the voices as a completely seperate project.  Export each track individually and then import them into my main project.  Then just work with them as audio tracks rather than MIDI.  Try this if you're having stability issues.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Thu, Jun 05 2014 22:19
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1060

Same here.

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Fri, Jun 06 2014 23:07
by Shawn Gibson
Joined on Tue, Sep 23 2008, Toronto, Posts 187

Thanks guys. Sorry for the late response. I have to admit my ignorance here, I've only ever run my guitar as an audio track in Cubase, via VST connections. How would I make Play instances audio directly into Cubase (not with VEP but directly on the same computer as the DAW)?

edit: clearly I'm not quite understanding all of the info you guys wrote. If I have my Cubase and Play samples on the same box (my second slave died) how would you recommend this?

Eternal Nube with a passion for all-things VSL.
Posted on Sun, Jun 08 2014 10:56
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1567
shawngibson wrote:

Thanks guys. Sorry for the late response. I have to admit my ignorance here, I've only ever run my guitar as an audio track in Cubase, via VST connections. How would I make Play instances audio directly into Cubase (not with VEP but directly on the same computer as the DAW)?

 

 

Okay, I don't use Cubase so perhaps I'm the ignorant one here but shouldn't you be able to insert Play into your project from, say an "insert instrument" or "insert softsynth," route a MIDI track to that softsynth instance which should come up in a synth rack menu or something.  Right?  Normally, you would insert Play or VEPro or VI pro or any other software synthesizer as a softsynth into your project, record/program your tracks through MIDI routed to the softsynth then bounce them to audio tracks.

Do you record your tracks externally perhaps?  Like on a mixing consol or something?

What I suggested in my first post is to create a project all by itself dealing with nothing but your symphonic voices tracks.  Export those tracks to seperate wave files, on to say the desktop, then import those tracks into another project where you have your VePro/VI Pro, or whatever.  Normally, you should be able to just click and drag them into your main project.

It could be that I'm not understanding exactly what you're trying to do but I hope this helps.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sun, Jun 08 2014 11:05
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2658

look at the manual :

http://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/179644_vimanual.pdf

or search "cubase qlsc" in google

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Jun 10 2014 20:59
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1632
shawngibson wrote:

Thanks guys. Sorry for the late response. I have to admit my ignorance here, I've only ever run my guitar as an audio track in Cubase, via VST connections. How would I make Play instances audio directly into Cubase (not with VEP but directly on the same computer as the DAW)?

edit: clearly I'm not quite understanding all of the info you guys wrote. If I have my Cubase and Play samples on the same box (my second slave died) how would you recommend this?

FIRST: because Cyril does it in Logic, which is not Cubase, is no reason for you to follow suit. Cyril has a belief about instantiating things which aren't VSL in Logic which is kind of unique to Cyril. IME, porting the audio from a plugin in the host to VE Pro is convoluted and all other things being equal significantly less efficient than using VE Pro for the instrument. I don't advise doing this Confused kind of thing.

I don't have experience with large libraries in Play. I have one thing, 'RA' which performs about as well as a similar Kontakt instrument. It loads much slower than everything except some deep BFD2 things in my frames but no performance issue. EDIT: Voices of Passion is not at all large.
If you're having an issue with something with that footprint, something more than EW Play is likely the bottleneck, the network for instance. And you might, in the interim before you find out what it is, find some joy with it straight into Cubase.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Wed, Jun 11 2014 02:03
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2658
civilization 3 wrote:

 porting the audio from a plugin in the host to VE Pro is convoluted and all other things being equal significantly less efficient than using VE Pro for the instrument. I don't advise doing this Confused kind of thing.

If you dont use MIR you just send the out of the choir to your Cubase Mixer and this uses less cpu that going thru VEP

If you use MIR on a slave, the advantage is that the cpu power will be used on the master

If you use MIR and QLSC in the DAW i am not sure that there an overhead 

Did you check QLSC compatibility page :

http://www.soundsonline.com/Symphonic-Choirs

In the list of VST in Cubase do you see Play ?

Why dont you post your problem on Cubase forum ?

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Wed, Jun 11 2014 06:12
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1632
Cyril wrote:
civilization 3 wrote:

 porting the audio from a plugin in the host to VE Pro is convoluted and all other things being equal significantly less efficient than using VE Pro for the instrument. I don't advise doing this Confused kind of thing.

If you dont use MIR you just send the out of the choir to your Cubase Mixer and this uses less cpu that going thru VEP

If you use MIR on a slave, the advantage is that the cpu power will be used on the master

If you use MIR and QLSC in the DAW i am not sure that there an overhead

You said that you 'put EWQL in your DAW' rather than VE Pro. Yet you put VSL in VE Pro. These are both essentially the same type of thing. You make no sense. The reason for using VE Pro for third party instruments is exactly the reason for using VSL instruments. The plugin is not competing for priority in the same process as the DAW. Do you not understand this basic reason???

Now you have a different story. You are quoted verbatim as having said you put EWQL in your DAW and send its audio to VEP. This is DEFINITELY higher overhead than plugging it into VE Pro and using it normally.

In Cubase - have you ever used it? - to 'put EWQL' - OR ANY INSTRUMENT 'in the DAW' is not through itself going to result in better performance. If it was, VE Pro would not be a viable product. This is its raison d'etre, to make instruments perform better than in the DAW.


I of course cannot speak to your actual experience, but it isn't going to be true of Cubase. Unless, as I suggested, for the time being until the actual bottleneck is sorted. I do not know what it is. I am using, in VE Pro, comparable footprint Play connected to Cubase and it works as well as the other instruments, which is just peachy.

It could be a combination of OS, Cubase version [7.x?] and Play version. This all has to be listed or we don't know how to help you. IE: Play 4.1.8 in VE Pro 5.3.13240 in OSX.6.8 works perfectly connected to Cubase 5.5.3 here. I doubt the library particularly is a factor, Voices of Passion is quite a light footprint. I don't know what the other abbreviation even means but the OP indicates 'small'.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Wed, Jun 11 2014 06:17
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1632
Cyril wrote:

Did you check QLSC compatibility page :

http://www.soundsonline.com/Symphonic-Choirs

In the list of VST in Cubase do you see Play ?

Why dont you post your problem on Cubase forum ?

EW Play works in VE Pro connected to Cubase. You are now in the territory of your imagination. Stop "helping". You're just muddying the waters.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Wed, Jun 11 2014 06:35
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1632
shawngibson wrote:

 my EW slave tries to play certain thing (EW voices), it works for a moment or two, then the next run though, there's nothing there, just silence. No crashes or errors, just silence.

Is 'your EW slave' a different computer than the one you have success with? It could be a network problem such as dynamic IP. There is just too little information to really do anything with here.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Wed, Jun 11 2014 08:46
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2658
civilization 3 wrote:
Cyril wrote:

Did you check QLSC compatibility page :

http://www.soundsonline.com/Symphonic-Choirs

Why dont you post your problem on Cubase forum ?

EW Play works in VE Pro connected to Cubase. You are now in the territory of your imagination. Stop "helping". You're just muddying the waters.

If you read Cubase compatibility list there are some restrictions because of problem with versions of Cubase

I am not going to fight with you :

I this guy has problem hosting Play QLSC in VEP and other "Play" instruments are working ok, it could be because with add on of the word builder Play behave deferently.

Did you read well, I am speaking of using or not using MIR, that does make a big differences of what you can or cannot do and where you put the load !!!!! and to justify the use of  VEP

Is is a non sense to host "Play" in VEP if you are not using MIR, because you add a level.

This end the subject

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Wed, Jun 11 2014 10:24
by Shawn Gibson
Joined on Tue, Sep 23 2008, Toronto, Posts 187

Sorry for the delay, guys, been working hard to get this stuff all working. I originally had 2 slave boxes, one housing EW products, and the other VSL (with aux items like Superior Drummer and Trillian scattered around) and a master box for Cubase.

The EW box, well, it crashed all the time, and after a long while of trying to fix it, I finally abandoned it just last week or so.

So now, I have my VSL slave, and my master box running Cubase - and that box is now housing EW as well.

Over the course of the last few weeks, I've removed the crashing computer, replaced a faulty router, and downgraded Play to version 3 since I'm using Cubase 6.5.

Both boxes have static IPs.

With the exception of EWSC, EVERYTHING is finally working. It's been a long haul! 

Right now, I'm using VEP5 on both boxes. And that includes Play in VEP5 on the master. It works fine, no glitches/pops.  The VSL box is all Samsung EVOs, so it blazes. The master box is all HDDs, so I've turned disk streaming off in Play and set it to 2048 samples, which seems to work great.

As I say, the only issue I have now is that EWSC will load (WB multis), but in time, it simply drops the samples, and goes blank. Reloading works to solve the problem.

I'm very happy that everything is working.

Obviously, I can't be building huge templates now as I only have a 24gb (RAM) slave and a 16gb master that's doing double duty to house Play, but as funds allow in the new year I will get a second slave and things should be just peachy. In July, I'll be upgrading the master to Samsung EVOs as well, which will allow me to load more instruments, obviously.

The biggest problem I face now that everything is working, is that Windows 8 doesn't support my GI-20 (midi guitar controller) so I think I will have to install Cubase on the slave (Win 7 Pro) and when using the guitar, write on that box. Unless of course someone knows if I can keep the guitar on the slave and somehow have Cubase read it on the master?

Thanks a lot for all the help I've received on this forum over the years. I'm finally able to write again:)

edit: ps, no MIR, just mirX for VSL and Altiverb 6 for everything else...though to be honest I've not figured out how to get Altiverb into VEP5...

Shawn

Eternal Nube with a passion for all-things VSL.
Posted on Thu, Jul 03 2014 06:55
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1632
Cyril wrote:

Is is a non sense to host "Play" in VEP if you are not using MIR, because you add a level.

This end the subject.

What you have here is utter rubbish. 'Play' is just a virtual instrument plugin; if what you say is true, it's 'you add a level' with VSL, with Kontakt, with any virtual instrument. You seem like you're brand new to the whole thing and that you are confused as to what VE Pro even is. You have confused VE Pro with MIR somehow I guess. You can have the opinion the rest of your days as far as I care, I'm doing nonsense everything I host an instrument in VE Pro according to your reasoning. But you are simply out-to-lunch with that.

I hope you have stopped 'helping'.  You're just adding noise now.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Thu, Jul 03 2014 06:59
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1632

I used to isolate Play in any of the versions 3. That was because its memory server and Kontakt's memory server - which on OSX one had to use with Kontakt 3.5 for the memory access - would not share the same sandbox.

That isn't true for me today because I don't use Kontakt memory server; I don't know if the two still won't co-exist. But in that scenario VE Pro would only ever crash.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Thu, Jul 03 2014 07:20
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2658

Civilisation 3 ; before criticising my post you should think a little

1 ) Play in Daw

Logic or other DAW  -->> Play --> Logic --> amplifier

2) Play in VEP

Logic or other DAW  -->> VEP -->> Play--> VEP/MIR --> Logic --> amplifier

How can you say there not a level !

I can return "You just say rubbish !"

So I will repeat :

It is a non sense to host "Play" in VEP if you are not using MIR, because you add a level.

-->> = Midi

--> = audio

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Jul 03 2014 19:42
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1632

I should think. Why do you use VSL instruments in VE Pro? What is different?
I didn't say 'you don't add a level', I said that you add a level with VSL, Kontakt, Spectrasonics, etc. Obviating your point completely.

You should read!

This last bit does nothing but reiterate your silly "point". You should see if you can get a working definition of *sense*.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Fri, Jul 04 2014 02:06
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5512

Isn't Cyril saying that if you have Play working separately, and VE Pro working, then unless you are trying to use Play with MIR it is not necessary to use Play as a plugin because that would be redundant? 

That makes sense to me, though I just use Play separately on another slave since it is somewhat difficult to deal with.

Posted on Fri, Jul 04 2014 03:22
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1060

I don't have an opinion on this, however PLAY is a cumbersome engine, and the Symphonic Choirs may be unique (therefore irreplaceable), but both system hungry and very hard for the user to perfect their enunciation, so it is best not to include them in a large project, but rather to dedicate a separate project to the choirs and effect/filter/mix them there (except for reverb), and then import the results as audio files. What happens then (VE PRO or straight to sequencer output) is not within my purview to say, although I very happily throw them as audio regions in Logic and its output. If working with MIR some other way may be preferable.

Even professional recordings in big studios oftentimes have the choirs sing on top of previously recorded orchestras to simplify the process. And the human choirs are 100 times more flexible than the EWSQ. 

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
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