Sorry if this is a basic question for many of you, but can someone explain to me the difference between a performance legato and a detache? How about Staccato vs Portato? When would you use one vs the other?
Thank you!
-N.
Thank you!
-N.
-
Some Clarity In String Articulations: Detache vs Legato and Portato vs Staccato
-
I can try - although there are people here who can surely explain it with greater competence and will hopefully chime in to correct me in case I'm less-than-spot on with some of the stuff I say. Also forgive me if I start pointing out the obvious or harping on about general knowledge stuff. While your question reads as if you're still pretty new to writing and arranging, perhaps I'm reading it wrong and maybe I'm telling you stuff you already knew when I was still struggling with tieing my shoes or something. :) I don't think Staccato really needs explaining – you can already tell by just playing your staccato samples that it's a short, very accentuated sound. It's produced by a quick stroke of the bow and can sound very piercing and aggressive, even almost percussive, when really forced. Of course you can also play staccato with less power and with low velocity values. You would obviously use them it whenever you're in need of short and accentuated notes that don't sustain. The term "detaché" already suggests it: this technique produces notes that are audibly "detached" from each other. When playing detaché, the player performs a bow change with every note - this means alternating up- and down bows. It's the technique you see people gesturing when they're playing charade and are trying to say "violin". As the direction of the bow changes with each played note, you can hear a slight "bump" on the beginning of each note - a clearly pronounced accent - and a slight "pause" in between notes. You can tell that the player has changed the bowing direction. Try playing a series of notes with your Detaché patch and you will notice that every note will be clearly pronounced and won't bleed into the next one. In contrast, legato means "tied", or "slurred". When playing legato, the player is able to perform two or several notes, even a whole series , but with one consistent bow stroke. The left hand is playing different notes, but the right hand doesn't re-bow every time the left hand moves to another note. Thus, you don't hear an accented attack on the beginning of a new note, and the little "pause" in between doesn't occur.The transition between the notes is much smoother, the notes sound much more tied together, flowing. VSL-specific, performance legato patches actually contain recorded samples of those smooth transitions. When legato MIDI notes connect in your sequencer, these samples are triggered, which creates that characteristic sound of slurred notes that are tied together. In order for those legato transitions to trigger, your notes have to connect, or overlap. Try it yourself: open up the piano roll in your DAW, draw two sustained notes and make them connect - with no "silence" gap in between notes. Listen to how they connect smoothly. Now shorten the first note a little bit, so that there's a small gap between the end of the note and the start of the second one. Hear how it sounds different? The legato transition sample didn't fire, but there was a release sample instead, and the notes didn't sound quite as smoothly connected. Also, try comparing detaché, and sustain patches with legato. Play those two connected notes with each patch and notice how the sustain and detaché patches produce little "bumps", while the legato patch transitions more smoothly in comparison. Portato is a bit more difficult to explain. It's kind of like legato – performing more than one note without a bow change – but the initial attack of the note is slightly emphasized with the bow. It still is a soft, flowing sound, similar to legato, but there's a little bit of an emphasis, however more gentle and not as "bumpy" as a bow change like in detaché – and obviously nowhere as strident as with staccato. So what do you use and why choose one articulation over another? There are no set-in-stone rules. You use the patch that makes the kind of sound you imagined, or comes closest. Which means that you should closely focus not just on the choice of notes, the intervals and the chords - but also on how they're performed, with which kind of feel, dynamics ... it's not just what you play, it's how you play it, just as it isn't just the words you say, but HOW you say them. There are countless uses and applications for the different articulations. Of course, there are some standards you hear frequently. Legato is often used when you want your melodies to sound really soft, smooth, flowing and sustained. A lot of bow changes would produce audible accents and transitions, which would obviously take away from the soaring, buttery quality of the phrase. If you play runs with legato, they will have this certain rolling, seamless, nimble-footed character. In contrast, playing them detaché will make them sound more solid and clearly pronounced, perhaps also secure or regal, while executing them staccato would make it sharp, dashing, aggressive or hit-and-run. Staccato, and its sibling, the spiccato, are currently obviously very popular in "trailer" and Hollywood action music with all those repeated rhythmical ostinato figures and slamming low double basses with celli octaves on top and all that. Can sound really cool and powerful when not overused. Keep in mind that you're not locked in and bound to one articulation during a phrase. Your melody, run, chord sequence or whatever doesn't have to be "all legato", "all staccato" or whatever. Combine articulations, alternate them, conciously think about the feel and the dynamics of the phrase you are trying to create. Some notes are accentuated, others are slurred, some ring out for a long time, others get shortened or deadened – this is what makes a performance lively and expressive. Obviously, talking or writing about music and musical articulations is always a little bit awkward and somewhat diffuse. The one thing that would definitely really, really take your sample-based music and your use of the VSL stuff to another level is to get familiar with how the real instruments are played and how they produce sounds. Once you understand that, everything in sample-land will make a whole different level of sense. If you don't know anybody who can show you some classical instrument basics hands-on: it's a very good idea to watch videos on Youtube. There are lots of beginner's tutorials on playing technique and stuff like that. Once you've seen some close-ups of someone performing techniques and explaining them, the articulations of your VSL instruments – and everything I wrote here – will be much clearer. And finally: don't get caught up in thinking about samples, articulations and techniques too much! It's all just beautiful noise, in the end. You should't start thinking too machine-like and binary. Use the articulation, patch or combination which sounds the most like what you're trying to achieve. Manipulate the stuff and make it sound the way you want, even if it's called differently. Try simulating a fortepiano with a sustain or legato patch by drawing an velocity crossfade curve, or try creating a marcato-like brass patch by layering staccato/sforzato-patches with sustained ones, etc. etc. There's a lot of stuff you can do, just don't get too boxed in and caught up with names of articulations, techniques, sample patches and all that jazz ...
-
@JimmyHellfire said:
there are people here who can surely explain it with greater competence and will hopefully chime in to correct meHa-ha! That is a perfect explanation. Cecil Forsyth could not have done better. So where is this modesty coming from? You should strut around arrogantly like all the other people on this Forum. (Dietz, Paul and Herb excluded... [A])
-
Wow, thank you so much for the perfect explanation! Really appreciate it. I am definitely new when it comes to orchestration because I am switching direction from electronic dance music. I want to really understand how these articulations are actually played. Didn't realize that performance legato is really slurred. What confused me is that I see perf_legato_slur patches (why do they even exist). As for portato, I find myself liking 1/16th note meloodic portato patterns and wondered how is this played in real life as I never want to do something that is unnatural. Sometimes I have a certain violin melody sound in my head and have no idea what set of articulations will get me to this sound, so I have a lot to learn!
Thanks for the advice, will certainly follow what you suggested!
-
-
The "slurred" legato are more pronounced legato, but not actual portamento on one string. The normal legato is what would usually be done for a typical legato passage, which is combination of notes that are taken on one bow and actually slid between, as well as actually separate though closely connected notes on different strings. That is normal for a live performance of written slurs, depending on which string is playing what note and how best to switch to the next note or how it is even possible in some cases - for example a violin slur from a low open G to a middle C: that HAS to be on one string though it could be bowed separately. On the other hand you could do a "legato" two ways - either by sliding on one string or switching to another string - if it was from low G to D above middle C, because you could do it on the G string with a slide, or switch without an audible gap from the G string to the D string.
So the point is, legato is complicated in actual performance practice because there are different ways to play a passage depending on what the notes are.
-
Thanks William! I see now. Great info... Lots of things to consider now but worth it! :-) My goal is to sound as natural as possible... For example, it was pointed out in the past to me that I had these endless legato passages (all notes connected) which effectively made for no bow change.
-
If you set up a very simple custom matrix which has legato for the first cell, sustain for the second, detache then staccato for 3rd and 4th, you will be able to use almost all of the normal string bowing articulations by keyswitching between just those four. You can play a huge amount of string music beautifully with just those four articulations. If you start with sustain, you will get a fresh downbow, which can then be switched to legato for a new smooth line. If you need shorter articulations, more pronounced and shorter, you then can use the detache or staccato.
One thing that will always make your line sound more natural is to mix articulations, based on the phrasing of the line you are doing. So if it has a feel of starting on a certain note, even in the middle of a phrase, use sustain, detache (if the note is short enough) or even sforzando, then immediately switch to legato to connect the rest of the line or phrase.
The portato articulations are really good also, and in strings may be used instead of detache to get more complexity or a slightly different attack to the note. Also, the legato repeition notes in the strings - those are really good if you have a slower line, that you want to sound more natural.
The great thing about the VSL legato is that you can connect any previous note to a legato transition and target note. That is an awesome feature, when you think how it allows any kind of attack or dynamic to be used with a legato transition note. So if you start with a forte piano, then go to piano legato, you will have a totally different line that has an accented start then a soft legato melody. The same thing applies to the dynamic samples, which if you match correctly (simply by listening) you can create transitions to any following legato note. That allows for example, a crescendo sustain to a slurred fortissimo jump. Something you might often want to use for dramatic effect.
-
Thanks so much William! Things are starting to better click now... I had totally misunderstood some things, and so glad you clarified. I wish VSL had written this somewhere in their documentation. All these advanced features should be detailed somewhere... :-/ In any case, looking forward to applying some of the above suggestions!
-
@JimmyHellfire said:
Staccato, and its sibling, the spiccato, are currently obviously very popular in "trailer" and Hollywood action music with all those repeated rhythmical ostinato figures and slamming low double basses with celli octaves on top and all that. Can sound really cool and powerful when not overused.
So what about spiccato? I've never really been able to wrap my head around spiccato. And I guess it would be pretty disgusting if I actually did wrap my head around spiccato, or a tree, a telephone pole or anything else for that matter.[+o(]
To me, spiccato just sounds like 2/3rds of a staccato. Why not just use a lower velocity staccato or a "short staccato?" When would you use a spiccato?
BTW Guy Bacos has produced some great video demos for most of the major instrument collections. What I like about them is he shows you how just about every articualtion in the library can be used giving you an idea of how to incorporate those articulations in your composition.
Here's a link to the solo strings: http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/344/350/1030/643.htm
Chamber Strings 1: http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/344/351/1544/1203.htm
And Appassionata 1 : http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/344/422/1546/1205.htm
I hope they help.
-
@BachRules said:
William, which taiko-legato is best for (a) Hans Zimmer sound and (b) Zack Hemsey sound?
Answer...
(a) TKperf_legato_piece of cardboard_thump!
(b) TKperf_legato smaller piece of cardboard_thud
-
@jasensmith said:
So what about spiccato? I've never really been able to wrap my head around spiccato. And I guess it would be pretty disgusting if I actually did wrap my head around spiccato, or a tree, a telephone pole or anything else for that matter.
To me, spiccato just sounds like 2/3rds of a staccato. Why not just use a lower velocity staccato or a "short staccato?" When would you use a spiccato?
The bowing technique of spiccato is quite different and therefor the sound.
The standard staccato stroke is straight and rigid, and the bow doesn't actually leave the string. Therefor, the string can't vibrate and "ring out", and the note deadens off. There is also the possibility of lifting the bow after the stroke, but let's ignore that right now.
When playing spiccato, the player lets the bow "fall" on the string and bounce off it during a stroke. As this is also a quick, short motion, the initial contact of the bow hair with the string produces a short note, similar to a standard staccato - but as the bow bounces off, it lets the string ring out for a moment. This leaves us with a somewhat shorter attack and a more "ambient" tail of the note.
I feel that the spiccato sounds more swift, more light-footed and playing a figure spiccato has a certain "swing" to it, in contrast to the full sounding rigidness of the staccato. You could of course shorten the duration of the staccato notes and use a lower velocity, and I often do that. But what you don't get with staccato is that "bounciness" and the airy decay of the note, it just has a different, more swinging character.
When I'm doing repeated patterns and rhythmic motives with a lot of notes, I like to lean somewhat more on the spiccato, because staccato all the way could easily sound too overbearing and too stiff. For me, spiccato works more when I'm trying to suggest a feeling of "motion".
Or we could also say: staccato is like shooting someone with a crossbow, while spiccato is a little more like whipping them. Now that's something to wrap one's head around ... wonder what's the association with tremolo?
P.S. That solo violin video from Guy Bacos just doesn't get old. It really demonstrates a great sample library in the hands of an admirably skilled user. Every time I see it, I'm impressed to no end
-
Great, thanks for the links! Will check them out. Very helpful. Concerning spiccato... Before switching to Orchestral music as my preferred style, I always thought of these rhythmical ostinatos as staccatos (don't forget, I have absolutely no background in classical music, only electronic music). So when I bought my first VSL, and started creating my first basic pieces, I realized the stacatto doesn't sound the way I was expecting it to sound. I was creating these 1/16th note ostinatos, and even though the sound was nice, it was not what I was expecting. So out I was in the search of this mystery articulation the way I was envisioning it in my head. In the end, I found, that articulation was spicatto. What makes it sound so distinct, I believe is the bouncing of the bow (correct me if I am wrong). The other thing I realized, if a violin player played 1/16th note staccatos for a long time, it would be an extremely physical demanding performance. Am I right or no? I think a spicatto would be less demanding for a player. Again that is when playing these long ostinato pieces. Again, these are conclusions I reached myself thinking about how to sound as natural as possible. Those who are violin players can freely pitch in!
-
Hey Jimmy,
Thanks for your insight and thorough knowledge on all of this. I appreciate it.
And yes those videos are excellent[Y] I find myself reffereing to them constantly.