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VEPro CPU Usage Issues
Last post Mon, May 09 2016 by socalcomposer, 6 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Sep 09 2014 15:00
by Zelorkq
Joined on Fri, Sep 28 2012, Posts 36

Hi all!

Sorry about this long message... But I hope somebody can help :)

Specs Master:
Windows 7 x64
Cubase 7.5.3 x64
Intel Xeon E3-1230 v2
32GB RAM
latest VEPro, Suite, MIR

Specs Slave:
Windows 7 x64
Intel i7-930
24GB RAM
latest VEPro, Suite

I've been using VEPro 5 (incl. MIR) for 2 years now and I've been with a certain CPU issue for some time. I'm using Cubase, and I have a big template (150-200 MIDI tracks), thus my pieces are generally very big.

Setup: Slave PC routes its audio to Cubase on the Master PC, which routes it via Audio Input Plugins to the VEPro instance on the same PC.

Example scenario 1: I disable my audio device, and make sure my VEPro instance of the Master PC is connected and decoupled. Then I connect my device again, and my CPU jumps to 35-40% usage and stays there, even tho I'm not playing back anything. The minute I play my piece, my CPU generally goes to 100% (a lot of instruments and MIR...) and gives me crackles. This is to be expected, because I only have 60% of the actual CPU power left) So the minute I connect my audio device, my CPU jumps up, but this is only if VEPro is connected. If VEPro is not connected, my CPU stays at 3-5% or so, the usual Windows idling.

Example scenario 2: Ignore the device, it's connected. The minute I connect my VEPro instance (master PC) in Cubase, my CPU jumps to 35-40% and the rest is the same ;)

It can't be a device problem. I'm using a X-Fi Platinum (not very 'professional' I know, but it does everything I need very well) with the latest Asio4All drivers. However, I ordered the Steinberg UR22 a few days ago and could give it a try today with the latest Yamaha/Steinberg drivers. Alas, the same problem :(

Thus the only conclusion is VEPro being the culprit (or MIR or Cubase). I've tried a lot already... Every single Device, VEPro and MIR buffer settings with various versions (I've had this problem for quite some time). Here's my VEPro setup: I'm only using one Instance on my PC (and 2 on my Slave PC). I'm using Audio Input Plugins in Cubase to route the Slave audio to the Master VEPro (the one and only instance). This instance has got 32-40 MIDI and Audio In/Outputs enabled, because that's how many I'm using. I've grouped certain instruments together, so I can then push these to MIR (which has about 40 instruments placed, VSL, PLAY, Kontakt, and Audio files from the slave PC).

I don't know if it's because the VEPro instance on the master PC has so many Audio In/Outputs, but that's the only way I can get all of of the audio from my slave to the master and MIR it together with the instruments already in the instance. The 40% CPU hogging is extremely irritating, because I can only use a bit more than half my CPU power which plagues me with crackling, pops, and high latency. Currently I have to run at Asio4All buffer of 1024 and MIR buffer 2048 (which still gives me crackles mind you). But pushing each up doesn't help all too much ... and at some point 100ms+ latency is not what I had in mind :/

Can anybody relate to this problem? Does anyone have a solution maybe?
I'd appreciate every bit of help, thanks :)

Regards

Posted on Tue, Sep 09 2014 15:23
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7725

Have you already tried to switch off "ASIO Guard" in Cubase's Preferences? This feature is a well-known cause for many problems.

If this doesn't help, it's most likely the fact that you use many VE Pro Audio Input plug-ins. The "smarter" DAWs get, the harder it is to play tricks on them by sending audio to other applications. Cubase 7+ is known to be very rigid in its regime.

Kind regards,

.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Sep 09 2014 16:51
by Zelorkq
Joined on Fri, Sep 28 2012, Posts 36

Thanks for your reply Dietz.

I forgot to mention that I have already fiddled around with every setting in Cubase as well. ASIO Guard is off on my setup because I've never seen any improvements with it on. Changing any of those tick boxes with 'boost' and the like doesn't really improve anything. Tried that already ;)

Well I've got 13 Audio Input Plugins, which isn't thaat many (so basically [1/2, ..., 25/26] channels used in VEPro). I already grouped them as much as possible. What I did now was completely delete all of my Audio Input Plugins in Cubase, but still kept my master instance of VEPro connected. This has actually pushed down my CPU usage from 35-40% to 25-30% :) so that definitely helped a bit. However, I need those Audio Input Plugins running :/

Cubase 6.5 has the exact same effect here tho. I hear you. I generally use 6.5 to export my final version of a track, because with 7+, Steinberg incorporated some new *whatnot* scheme which gives me crackles on my exported mp3/wav and 6.5 doesn't. For that I have been in contact with them already but there doesn't seem to be a fix on the horizon..

So:

1) Is there anything I can still try to compensate? I'll maybe contact Steinberg again if they know of a workaround with their Cubase haha.

2) In the (maybe near) future I'll be getting a more powerful master PC and sell my slave PC as I prefer a single-PC setup. Will it be possible to combine multiple VEPro instances on the same PC without using Audio Input Plugins? Or have one instance that supports way more than 40 MIDI channels so Audio Input Plugins on one PC are not necessary?

Regards

Posted on Tue, Sep 09 2014 18:01
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7725

If you need the VEP Audio Input plug-ins to send "conventional" audio into MIR Pro, you would be much better off by using MIR Pro as VST-plug-in in Cubase directly.

If you use the Input plug-in to send the signals derived from virtual instruments (both Vienna and 3rd-party) to VE Pro, I would suggest to host the instruments in VE Pro rather than in Cubase. That way you just have to send MIDI-data into VEP, not audio - and that is what it was actually made for. :-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Sep 09 2014 19:53
by Zelorkq
Joined on Fri, Sep 28 2012, Posts 36

The reason I don't want MIR in Cubase is that I have to mix in Cubase altogether then as well. (The setup of MIR in VEPro is much preferred, e.g. you can send the MIR wet signal to MIRacle much easier, and still control the dry signal after (or before) MIR with various other reverbs/effects etc. ) However, that is something I'd take into consideration and I'd also change my template that way if need be.

I use 'conventional' audio only extremely seldom (so far). Generally the audio sent from my slave PC is from my Kontakt instruments, which then have to be re-routed to my master PC VEPro instance.

I haven't hosted any plugins/instruments in Cubase, only MIDI tracks, just as you said. Every instrument is either loaded on my VEPro master PC instance, or on the slave VEPro instances. That part of the setup is as it should be :) But (ignoring the fact that I require more RAM than I have available on one PC at the moment) every VEPro instance is limited to I believe 40 MIDI ports, which is then 40x16 = 640 channels. For my application too limited (every patch for every PLAY instrument needs its own channel to use every articulation, thus Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass alone take 15 of these 40 channels omnomnom, leaving 25 behind to be used for countless Kontakt instances and VSL (Dimension Strings & Brass alone taking 3 as well)). So using multiple VEPro instances is unavoidable. And thus somehow connecting these instances seems to be a job for the Audio Input Plugin right?

Increasing the 40 MIDI ports limitation would be great for the future, if that's possible :) I'm sure there are others who would agree.

Other than that it seems I'm stuck with my CPU killer. I might modify my approach to MIR and mixing to within Cubase which could scratch off 10-15%, but I'll have to see about that approach.

At least until I can upgrade my PC in a few years time...

Thanks for your help on this matter Dietz.

Posted on Mon, May 09 2016 01:40
by socalcomposer
Joined on Sun, Oct 18 2009, Posts 1

I'm having a similar issue, 

While my template inside Cubase 8.5 is extremely large, I am not running any inserts or vst within cubase.  outsourcing everything to TWO instances of VEP on the same computer (Mac Pro trashcan, 96 GB of Ram)

my VST Performance inside Cubase barely registered until...I connect these 2 heavily loaded instances, then "average load" reads at 45% before I even hit playback.  It still works until I have a ton of things happening at the same time, the I start getting sample drops....

I still don't fully understand what the size of the VEP instance effects the VST Performance of Cubase?

Did you ever find a solution?

Thanks,
M

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