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VE Pro audio muting when switching tracks in Cubase Pro 8
Last post Wed, Jul 05 2017 by esencia, 112 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Jun 11 2015 17:16
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

 

I believe the Low setting in ASIO GUARD 2 sets everything to a 256 BUFFER.  So that is probably why the problem is not there on the low setting for you as you are already at a 256 BUFFER.  I use a 128 buffer and the problem is there at the LOW setting as well.

 

-D

 

Originally Posted by: noiseboyuk Go to Quoted Post

 


Note 3 - these results on my system at a buffer of 256. Specifics will vary depending on your soundcard and buffers, processor, platform etc.

Posted on Thu, Jun 11 2015 18:24
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Vienna, Austria, Posts 1760

Originally Posted by: dlpmusic Go to Quoted Post
VE PRO VST2 does not support ASIO-Guard 2 you have to disable ASIO GUARD, also VSL has to implement a VST-3 interface that supports ASIO- Guard. 



They have been informed about this. 

The latest VST SDK available for download is 3.6.0, built 22 nov 2013. There is no way to inform the host of ASIO Guard support within this SDK, beyond setting the instrument as an external instrument - which also disables offline bounce. Last I heard, you planned to release such an update last month. If you have any updated information, I would love to take part of it.
 
Thanks,
 
--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Thu, Jun 11 2015 18:27
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

I will post this in the Steinberg forum.

Posted on Tue, Jun 16 2015 09:36
by noiseboyuk
Joined on Tue, Nov 17 2009, Posts 83

From various posts by Steinberg and VSL employees on various forums and support posts, here's the situation as I best understand it.

There was an issue internal to Cubase which has been fixed. However this won't do anything until VSL update VE Pro, which they cannot yet do. The VST2 version is incompatible with ASIOguard. The VST3 version VSL cannot update until Steinberg updates the SDK, which has no time frame to be done. So until that unknown time, users are unable to use VE Pro with Cubase 8 without severe side effects.   Its probably best to disable ASIOguard from VE Pro in the plugin manager until this whole issue is resolved.  Unfortunatly it looks like this whole issue won't be fixed any time soon.

Win 7 Pro 64 bit, i7 4930, RME Babyface, 64gb RAM, Cubase Pro 8, PT12 HD, VE Pro 5
Posted on Tue, Jun 16 2015 15:04
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

This sums it up as far as I can tell.  I am so anxious for this to resolve an Vienna to get this implemented.

 

Originally Posted by: noiseboyuk Go to Quoted Post

From various posts by Steinberg and VSL employees on various forums and support posts, here's the situation as I best understand it.

There was an issue internal to Cubase which has been fixed. However this won't do anything until VSL update VE Pro, which they cannot yet do. The VST2 version is incompatible with ASIOguard. The VST3 version VSL cannot update until Steinberg updates the SDK, which has no time frame to be done. So until that unknown time, users are unable to use VE Pro with Cubase 8 without severe side effects.   Its probably best to disable ASIOguard from VE Pro in the plugin manager until this whole issue is resolved.  Unfortunatly it looks like this whole issue won't be fixed any time soon.

Posted on Mon, Jun 22 2015 02:03
by Transcend
Joined on Mon, May 18 2015, UK, Posts 1

This post has been interesting reading. I had never used Ensemble before in previous versions, so v5 is my first experience. I have pretty much been unable to use this (running slave on same machine as DAW, not had opportunity to try via networking but suspect the results will be the same or worse). I found similar advice re disabling asio-guard in plugin manager on the steinberg forum, this hasn't stopped VSL from corrupting any project it's inserted into along with causing other mysterious issues (although I'm still to 100% confirm it's VSL doing it, the first project I've made deliberately not using VSL seems to have solved this issue also). Really hope Vienna & Steinberg can sort this out between them, as it's looking like going back to having to open a new project for anything involving kontakt libraries.

As it seems the answer to when it'll be fixed is "when the new SDK is released ie we do not know", where would be a good place to lurk occasionally to receive updates on this issue? It's disappointing that to use the program I bought to solve my RAM-problem, I have to turn off a feature that then gives me a huge CPU problem :)

Posted on Sun, Aug 09 2015 09:26
by paaltio
Joined on Sat, Jan 20 2007, Helsinki, Finland, Posts 20

Originally Posted by: MS Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: dlpmusic Go to Quoted Post
VE PRO VST2 does not support ASIO-Guard 2 you have to disable ASIO GUARD, also VSL has to implement a VST-3 interface that supports ASIO- Guard. 



They have been informed about this. 

The latest VST SDK available for download is 3.6.0, built 22 nov 2013. There is no way to inform the host of ASIO Guard support within this SDK, beyond setting the instrument as an external instrument - which also disables offline bounce. Last I heard, you planned to release such an update last month. If you have any updated information, I would love to take part of it.
 
Thanks,
 

I thought I'd bump this thread since I'm sure many are eager for this fix -- looks like Steinberg has version 3.6.5 up from a few days ago. I couldn't find anything on this topic in the documentation with a quick look, but hopefully it's buried there somewhere. Any news on the issue?

Posted on Mon, Aug 10 2015 16:16
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

This sounds like good news that a new SDK is posted.  Can we get a response from Vienna?   Do you now have the information to fix VE PRO 5 to behave correctly with ASIO GUARD 2?

 

Originally Posted by: paaltio Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: MS Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: dlpmusic Go to Quoted Post
VE PRO VST2 does not support ASIO-Guard 2 you have to disable ASIO GUARD, also VSL has to implement a VST-3 interface that supports ASIO- Guard. 



They have been informed about this. 

The latest VST SDK available for download is 3.6.0, built 22 nov 2013. There is no way to inform the host of ASIO Guard support within this SDK, beyond setting the instrument as an external instrument - which also disables offline bounce. Last I heard, you planned to release such an update last month. If you have any updated information, I would love to take part of it.
 
Thanks,
 

I thought I'd bump this thread since I'm sure many are eager for this fix -- looks like Steinberg has version 3.6.5 up from a few days ago. I couldn't find anything on this topic in the documentation with a quick look, but hopefully it's buried there somewhere. Any news on the issue?

Posted on Tue, Aug 11 2015 12:58
by noiseboyuk
Joined on Tue, Nov 17 2009, Posts 83

It's looking hopeful.  Fabio Bartolini from Steinberg posted this today:

"The new extended VST SDK (v3.6.5) has been released a few days ago. The new version supports the scenario described above by Mr. Seleteg.

http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/developers.html"

Would be great if you can let us know if this is indeed what you've been waiting for, Vienna.

Win 7 Pro 64 bit, i7 4930, RME Babyface, 64gb RAM, Cubase Pro 8, PT12 HD, VE Pro 5
Posted on Tue, Aug 11 2015 21:48
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

Can we get a reply from Vienna on the status?  It would be great to get a comfirmation that you have what you need to fix the ASIO GUARD 2 problem so we can stop making requests to Steinberg.

 

Originally Posted by: noiseboyuk Go to Quoted Post

It's looking hopeful.  Fabio Bartolini from Steinberg posted this today:

"The new extended VST SDK (v3.6.5) has been released a few days ago. The new version supports the scenario described above by Mr. Seleteg.

http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/developers.html"

Would be great if you can let us know if this is indeed what you've been waiting for, Vienna.

Posted on Wed, Aug 12 2015 06:55
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12480

Hi everybody, 

I have informed our development team about this, hope they can get back to you soon. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Aug 12 2015 13:10
by Trailerman
Joined on Wed, Jun 14 2006, Manchester, UK, Posts 609

Please keep us posted Paul.

 

Many of us have not chimed in on this issue, but it's a huge deal for anybody usiing Cubase 8 and (in my case) Nuendo 7.   Here's hoping the new SDK allows you to resolve the issue.

 

Jules

System 1:

Windows 7 64bit
16 core, 3.4GHz E5-2687W, 128GB Ram,
Nuendo 6.5 / Nuendo 7.020 / Cubase 7.5 / Cubase Pro 8
Motu 2408 Mk III x 3

System 2:

Mac Pro Mid 2010
12 core, 3GHz, 32GB Ram,
OS 10.7.4
Seagate ES and Intel Solid State Drives
ProTools HDX, 11.3
Digidesign 192 Interfaces x6

System 3:

CPU: 2xIntel W5580 Xeon Nehalem S1366
Motherboard: Supermicro X8DT3-LN4F
RAM: 96GB ECC RAM in SUPERO 4GB modules (ECC-R DR340LER13)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit)
Audio Hardware: RME HDSPe AIO PCIe
Hard Drives: 2x1.5TG Seagate ES (SATA)
1x2TB Seagate ES (SATA)
1x1.5TB Seagate ES (SAS)
MIDI: Midi Over Lan CP 3
Output Format: Stereo
Sample Rate: 44.1KHz clocked from external wordclock master
Graphics: Gainward 9500GT 512MB PCIe


Posted on Fri, Aug 28 2015 15:25
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

Seems like enough time has passed. It would be great to get some sort of comment back from Vienna when we will see this fix implemented.

Posted on Wed, Sep 02 2015 22:25
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

Martin or Paul....any word on this yet?

Posted on Thu, Sep 03 2015 08:00
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12480

Hi, 

I talked to Martin, here is his answer: Prefetchable support disabling will be available in the upcoming new version of VE Pro. 

 

So Asio Guard will be disabled programmatically in the VST3 plug-in, every other change would introduce a dramatic raise in latency. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Sep 03 2015 08:44
by Trailerman
Joined on Wed, Jun 14 2006, Manchester, UK, Posts 609

Thanks for the post Paul.

However, I'm not entirely clear on what this means and would be very grateful if you or Martin could clarify.  This is my current understanding:

Selective disabling of ASIO Guard on a per-plugin basis (e.g. just for VE Pro) is already available in Cubase 8 and Nuendo 7.  I have tested this (and tried to work with it) in Nuendo 7, and sure enough it does stop the issue whereby audio drops out every time a different track is selected.  HOWEVER, it means that CPU usage jumps dramatically, to the point where templates which run comfortable under previous versions of Cubase and Nuendo no longer run at all in Cubase 8 and Nuendo 7. 

In short, the efficiencies which ASIO Guard brings to Cubase 8 and Nuendo 7 are basically essential in order to keep large templates running at all.   If ASIO Guard is disabled for VE Pro, the loss of CPU efficiency renders many large templates unusable, and massively handicaps the usefulness of VE Pro.

My understanding of the situtation was that VSL needed to implement a VST-3 interface which supports ASIO Guard.  Your statement below appears to suggest that a new version of VE Pro will simply disable ASIO Guard support within the plugin, which leaves us in the same situation we're currently in.

Hopefully I have misunderstood.

Jules

System 1:

Windows 7 64bit
16 core, 3.4GHz E5-2687W, 128GB Ram,
Nuendo 6.5 / Nuendo 7.020 / Cubase 7.5 / Cubase Pro 8
Motu 2408 Mk III x 3

System 2:

Mac Pro Mid 2010
12 core, 3GHz, 32GB Ram,
OS 10.7.4
Seagate ES and Intel Solid State Drives
ProTools HDX, 11.3
Digidesign 192 Interfaces x6

System 3:

CPU: 2xIntel W5580 Xeon Nehalem S1366
Motherboard: Supermicro X8DT3-LN4F
RAM: 96GB ECC RAM in SUPERO 4GB modules (ECC-R DR340LER13)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit)
Audio Hardware: RME HDSPe AIO PCIe
Hard Drives: 2x1.5TG Seagate ES (SATA)
1x2TB Seagate ES (SATA)
1x1.5TB Seagate ES (SAS)
MIDI: Midi Over Lan CP 3
Output Format: Stereo
Sample Rate: 44.1KHz clocked from external wordclock master
Graphics: Gainward 9500GT 512MB PCIe


Posted on Thu, Sep 03 2015 14:46
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

It would be great if you can clarify what this means.

 

Hopefully.....does this mean we can change tracks in Cubase without the 2 second hang/pause in the audio?

 

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi, 

I talked to Martin, here is his answer: Prefetchable support disabling will be available in the upcoming new version of VE Pro. 

 

So Asio Guard will be disabled programmatically in the VST3 plug-in, every other change would introduce a dramatic raise in latency. 

Best, 
Paul

Posted on Thu, Sep 03 2015 15:56
by Trailerman
Joined on Wed, Jun 14 2006, Manchester, UK, Posts 609

Originally Posted by: dlpmusic Go to Quoted Post

It would be great if you can clarify what this means.

 

Hopefully.....does this mean we can change tracks in Cubase without the 2 second hang/pause in the audio?

You can already do this in Cubase - you just need to disable ASIO Guard for VE Pro.

The problem is, the loss of ASIO Guard means VE Pro uses signficantly more CPU resources than it would otherwise, leading to CPU overloads etc.   Which is why we've been waiting for VSL to implement a VST3 interface which correctly supports ASIO Guard 2, so that we can re-enable ASIO Guard for VE Pro, not suffer the CPU issues of having it disabled, and also not suffer the audio dropout problems.

Whether this is what VSL are looking to achive remains somewhat unclear (in fact rather unlikely) from my interpretation of Paul's post.

System 1:

Windows 7 64bit
16 core, 3.4GHz E5-2687W, 128GB Ram,
Nuendo 6.5 / Nuendo 7.020 / Cubase 7.5 / Cubase Pro 8
Motu 2408 Mk III x 3

System 2:

Mac Pro Mid 2010
12 core, 3GHz, 32GB Ram,
OS 10.7.4
Seagate ES and Intel Solid State Drives
ProTools HDX, 11.3
Digidesign 192 Interfaces x6

System 3:

CPU: 2xIntel W5580 Xeon Nehalem S1366
Motherboard: Supermicro X8DT3-LN4F
RAM: 96GB ECC RAM in SUPERO 4GB modules (ECC-R DR340LER13)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit)
Audio Hardware: RME HDSPe AIO PCIe
Hard Drives: 2x1.5TG Seagate ES (SATA)
1x2TB Seagate ES (SATA)
1x1.5TB Seagate ES (SAS)
MIDI: Midi Over Lan CP 3
Output Format: Stereo
Sample Rate: 44.1KHz clocked from external wordclock master
Graphics: Gainward 9500GT 512MB PCIe


Posted on Thu, Sep 03 2015 16:18
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 283

You misunderstood me.  Currently you can use ASIO GUARD 2 with VE PRO 5 but with the annoying audio muting.  If the prefech means we can still use it as is but the audio muting goes away I would assume it would still give us the CPU gain benefits that you can clearly see right now if you put up with the 2 second audio pause.  For me there is also additional problems that occur with VE PRO 5 in regards to having ASIO GUARD 2 on.  I have a very large template that takes Cubase about 10 seconds or so to start an export.  If I enable ASIO GUARD 2 with VE PRO 5 my exports take more then 1 1/2 minutes to begin exporting and a 1 1/2 minute delay for Cubase to become responsive after the export.

 

Disabling the plugin VE PRO 5 from using ASIO GUARD 2 within Cubase is a waste of time for me as there are almost no benefits acroos my system.  Turning it all on produces incredibly low CPU on the VE PRO machines.....that is what we all want.

So......if we still can get the benefit of the low CPU and no audio muting that might be good enough.

Posted on Thu, Sep 03 2015 20:28
by paaltio
Joined on Sat, Jan 20 2007, Helsinki, Finland, Posts 20

Originally Posted by: dlpmusic Go to Quoted Post
So......if we still can get the benefit of the low CPU and no audio muting that might be good enough.

I didn't really get that out of it, seems like there's no other way except to disable ASIO Guard for VE Pro.

 I really dislike that idea, because with Cubase 8 the performance with all VSTis including VE Pro hosted ones has gone down, and only with ASIO Guard enabled does the whole thing make any sense. So there needs to still be a way to manually enable it for heavy sessions, even if VE Pro will default to disabled.

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