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  4. Suggestion for film scoring VSL Strings library

  • Suggestion for film scoring VSL Strings library

    M
    M

    Dear VSL forum members, hello, i need a suggestion...

    I am in the market for a VSL String library, the music I would mainly use it on is orchestral film music.

    I don't own any VSL strings libray yet, i just last month bought a few special edition packages (winds-brass-percussions) and immediatly fell in love with the whole Vienna sound and "ecosystem".

    Of course i listened thoroughly to the demos on the website, and i really loved the sound of the Appassionata bundle...what concerns me the most is that i'd love to be able to write convincing divisi 2 or 3 parts (I'm currently using LASS for this specific purpuse) and apparently this is not possible...I also noticed that there is no Violins1/Violins2 distinction

    has anyone managed to create convincing divisi parts with Appassionata?...and convincing "Vls1" and "Vls2" differentiation?

    I know there's Dimension Strings for divisi but their demos impressed me less soundwise (I may of course be wrong)...has anyone managed to use DS only and create a "Appassionata-like" sound, but with all the divisi capabilities? 

    I can only afford one library at the moment so I would avoid considering different packages to layer or to create the divisi, maybe in the future but for now i would love to find a perfect substitute for LASS.

     

    If it helps understanding my needs, I add that i have VI PRO but i don't own MIR, and my workflow is as follows:

    one Logic X track per section (as in a clean orchestral score)  going into Virtual Sound Stage for placement and early reflections, then going to the UAD Lexicon via send.

     

    thanks a lot in advance for your help 

    best regards

    -mike
  • F
    F

    I love Dimension strings for what they are. They are not big lush strings, but they are the most detailed and expressive library I know. Also it's the best for divisi parts. I don't think DS alone could replace a 60 pieces strings orchestra though. The low register (celli and bass) can sound pretty big but the high register will always sound thinner than a real 16 or 20 violins section. But I love the sound I can get with DS alone with a bit of EQ to smooth some mid-high frequencies and some exciter to bring up some (smooth) brightness.

     

    Other things to consider is the amount of articulations in those libraries. Appassionnata is the VSL string library that have the smaller amount of articulations (even if it as more articulations then most of other companies lib.).And DS is the most detailed one. For exemple, instead of one simple tremolo patch you get fast and slow tremolo. And having every strings position is reaaly nice, specialy the legato patch on the violin's G Strings.

    But... If you already have LASS, maybe you should check for a complement instead of a substitute.

    I use DS on top of other librairies (Orchestral, Appasionnata or Spitfire's Mural Strings) to get a big section plus more details or to do divisi. It should fit nicely with your LASS library too...

    Not having violins II is not a big deal for me since I'm panning everything with MIR and I almost never write Vls I + Vls II in unisons. They have made some Violins II patches in Appassionnata but it's based on the same source samples.
  • M
    M

    Dear Fred,

    thanks a lot for your kind answer.

    Can I ask you to explain to me an example of how you would approach a divisi part using, let's say, Mural Violins 1 + DS or Appassionata Violins + DS ? for exaple coming from a unison line (1 part) to a 2 part divisi and then again to a unison 1 part.

     

    Do you think Mir is mandatory to better take advantage of DS potential? ...or can I use DS without Mir and pan sections and musicians with VSS or using my daw pan?

     

    thanks again

    -mike
  • F
    F

    I use the DS strings for divisi (4 vls for the top voice and 4 vls for the lower voice)

    and I use the appasionnata to double the most important voice (usualy the top voice for the violins and violas and the lower voice for the cellos and basses).

    4 DS vls + Appa vls

    ________

    4 DS vls

     

    When I feel that the balance is'nt right I put less players on the doubled voice:

    2 DS vls + Appa vls

    ________

    6 DS vls

    In unison everybody plays:

    8 DS vls + Appa vls

    And the mix between DS and Appa can help the balance. 

     

    Maybe we will see a bigger dimension strings library in the future so we could do the exact player number for divisi parts. I would like to see a bigger Dimension Strings that are dived in groups of 2 or 4 players instead of single players in order to have a 16 violins section and bigger sound.

     

    I'm sure you can have really good result without using MIR. VSS should the the job. VSL libraries are not pre-panned so you can easily positionned them. 
  • S
    S

    I apologize- this is  test post, as my latops' gone wonky.
  • S
    S

    i also use dimension strings most of the time. i have two tracks for each section for long and short notes (exept basses) so it makes 18 tracks for strings.

    if you want the appassionata sound and only five tracks in your daw i wouldn't care about numbers of players. sample world is different. for me it never sounds like the orchestra is suddenly doubled when playing chords in a single section. the vienna instrument (pro) is very flexible. you can have legato articulations and play polyphonic at the same time. so if you write divisi just play two or more notes in a section.

    the missing second violins is a part of vsl that i don't like. you can do the transpose trick (transpose the whole violin section down a whole step and tune them up by pitch bend again - which can be pre programmed inside VIP) and use them as second violins. so you don't use the same samples when all violins are playing unison. that way you avoid phasing problems (which are also there when using mir).

    for my taste the apassionatas sound good but i'm missing some 'imperfection'. everything is 'creamy' but not 'woody'. if that makes sense at all :-) but they are definitely a good contrast to lass.
  • M
    M
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    dear Fred, thanks a lot for your input!

    this sounds like a very good setup, and the ability to balance the number of players is extremely clever indeed

    do you have any demos of music you created using this setup, so that i can listen to the result?

    I'd love to hear it!

    thanks again!

    all the best

     

    @FredB said:

    I use the DS strings for divisi (4 vls for the top voice and 4 vls for the lower voice)

    and I use the appasionnata to double the most important voice (usualy the top voice for the violins and violas and the lower voice for the cellos and basses).

    4 DS vls + Appa vls

    ________

    4 DS vls

     

    When I feel that the balance is'nt right I put less players on the doubled voice:

    2 DS vls + Appa vls

    ________

    6 DS vls

    In unison everybody plays:

    8 DS vls + Appa vls

    And the mix between DS and Appa can help the balance. 

     

    Maybe we will see a bigger dimension strings library in the future so we could do the exact player number for divisi parts. I would like to see a bigger Dimension Strings that are dived in groups of 2 or 4 players instead of single players in order to have a 16 violins section and bigger sound.

     

    I'm sure you can have really good result without using MIR. VSS should the the job. VSL libraries are not pre-panned so you can easily positionned them. 
  • M
    M
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    Thank you very much Saxer...do you have any demos of your music where i can listen to your setup?

    I would especially like to hear some divisi parts played with the technique you described, using polyphonic legato ans sus patches to mimic a divisi line.

    all the best!

    -mike

    @Saxer said:

    i also use dimension strings most of the time. i have two tracks for each section for long and short notes (exept basses) so it makes 18 tracks for strings.

    if you want the appassionata sound and only five tracks in your daw i wouldn't care about numbers of players. sample world is different. for me it never sounds like the orchestra is suddenly doubled when playing chords in a single section. the vienna instrument (pro) is very flexible. you can have legato articulations and play polyphonic at the same time. so if you write divisi just play two or more notes in a section.

    the missing second violins is a part of vsl that i don't like. you can do the transpose trick (transpose the whole violin section down a whole step and tune them up by pitch bend again - which can be pre programmed inside VIP) and use them as second violins. so you don't use the same samples when all violins are playing unison. that way you avoid phasing problems (which are also there when using mir).

    for my taste the apassionatas sound good but i'm missing some 'imperfection'. everything is 'creamy' but not 'woody'. if that makes sense at all 😊 but they are definitely a good contrast to lass.
  • S
    S
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    @mikeheels said:

    ...do you have any demos of your music where i can listen to your setup?

    I would especially like to hear some divisi parts played with the technique you described, using polyphonic legato ans sus patches to mimic a divisi line.

    here is a little track where i used apassionata strings 4-part divisi violins just by playing polyphonic. starting at about 1:25 

    https://soundcloud.com/saxer/marilyn
  • G
    G
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    Hi Mike,

    two examples here (Wagner & Mozart) employ DS violins combined with Orchestral & Solo Strings (Wagner) and Chamber Strings (Mozart), I thought they could be of interest to you...
  • M
    M

    thank you very much Goran and Saxer for your tips and links, very nice and very useful indeed!

    I just bought Appassionata 1 Full library and will start experimenting with it as soon as it's shipped to me.

    thank you again!

    all the best!

    -mike
  • J
    J

    Something to be aware of: In the Appassionata Strings library, I find that the strong vibrato patches (e.g. "VI-20_sus_Vib-strong") produce a much more lush sound than the regular sustain patches.
  • M
    M

    thanks for the info John!

    regards

    mike
  • M
    M

    I use Chamber Strings (Standard), i like them the most (but I dont have tried Dimension Strings yet ;)

    Here is a Example, a Attempt making a big sound using Chamber Strings and Apassionata Strings Sustain Patch, that comes with the Special Edition

    https://soundcloud.com/mw-design/a-new-day-432hz

    regards

    Markus
  • M
    M

    thank you Markus!
  • J
    J
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    @mikeheels said:

    I also noticed that there is no Violins1/Violins2 distinction

    It's not well documented, but the Appassionata violins does come with a small selection of "Violins 2" patches. 

    These have the same numbering as the normal violin patches, but with the letter "B" at the end, and they include patches for staccato, detache, sus_Vib, sfz, tremolo, and pizz.
  • M
    M
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    @mikeheels said:

    I also noticed that there is no Violins1/Violins2 distinction

    It's not well documented, but the Appassionata violins does come with a small selection of "Violins 2" patches. 

    These have the same numbering as the normal violin patches, but with the letter "B" at the end, and they include patches for staccato, detache, sus_Vib, sfz, tremolo, and pizz.

     

    Thank you John! in fact I didn't know that...

    Do you Appassionaa users all have MirX and use it with It? does it work well combined with Appassionata?