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New 96 Port Multiport Songs for Logic PRO X 10.1
Last post Wed, Oct 11 2017 by Ashermusic, 106 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Jun 04 2015 09:05
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 9482

Hello everybody, 

We have just created 3 versions of the Multiport Template, and we found a way to reduce complexity by replacing the macros with "only" Transformers and using the new mode "Copy matching events and apply operation (in reverse order)" in the MIDI Environment.

Learn more about the structure of the Multiport Templates in the VE PRO 5 Manual, page 46 ff. 

These are the available templates (also attached as a zip file to this post):

  • 1x16 MIDI Ports (256 MIDI Channels, 1 instance of Vienna Ensemble PRO)
  • 2x48 MIDI Ports (1536 MIDI Channels, 2 instances of Vienna Ensemble PRO)
  • 6x16 MIDI Ports (1536 MIDI Channels, 6 instances of Vienna Ensemble PRO)

 

Logic´s buffer limit in simple words:
If for whatever reason more than 256 simultaneous MIDI messages are sent from Logic to the Multiport Environment, the buffer will drop MIDI data randomly. With a lot of automation data and a huge template with many instruments playing, this number is easier reached that one might think. 

Best, 
Paul

File Attachment(s):
VE_PRO_Multiport_Songs_Beta.zip (1,353kb) downloaded 155 time(s).

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Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Jun 04 2015 13:36
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2455

Hi Paul

You forgot to mention :

Many thanks to Cyril to have proposed this improvement

With this modification the trafic is divided by 1/3 ;) 

Each midi message is preaceded by a  message :

Midi channel      CC 99    port number

Best

 

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X
Dorico 1.1
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Jun 05 2015 08:40
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 9482

Hi Cyril, 

I wasn´t aware of that.

Many thanks to Cyril to have proposed this improvement 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jun 05 2015 12:32
by cojoncio
Joined on Tue, Apr 20 2010, Spain, Posts 59

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

These are the available templates (attached as a zip file to this post):

  • 1x16 MIDI Ports (256 MIDI Channels, 1 instance of Vienna Ensemble PRO)
  • 2x48 MIDI Ports (1536 MIDI Channels, 2 instances of Vienna Ensemble PRO)
  • 6x16 MIDI Ports (1536 MIDI Channels, 6 instances of Vienna Ensemble PRO)

 

Best, 
Paul

Oh my...

1536 MIDI Channels?

Are u sure it's not a misprint?

You made my day

 

Big thanx!!

Master: Mac Pro 12 core. OS X 10.11 Logic X
Slave: i7 3930k. Windows 7
Posted on Sat, Jun 06 2015 05:45
by Sami Boman
Joined on Wed, Mar 23 2005, Jyväskylä, Finland, Posts 153

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

If for whatever reason more than 256 simultaneous MIDI messages are sent from Logic to the Multiport Environment, the buffer will drop MIDI data randomly. With a lot of automation data and a huge template with many instruments playing, this number is easier reached that one might think.

 

Does this mean 256 per instance or 256 for the whole environment? Is there any way to monitor the amount of midi messages?

Posted on Sat, Jun 06 2015 06:08
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2455

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Logic´s buffer limit in simple words:

If for whatever reason more than 256 simultaneous MIDI messages are sent from Logic to the Multiport Environment, the buffer will drop MIDI data randomly. With a lot of automation data and a huge template with many instruments playing, this number is easier reached that one might think. 

Best, 
Paul

Do you have all the figures concerning this limitation of Logic

What is there definition of simultaneous ?

As you send two midi messages per midi event the limit goes down to 128 midi event 

Will we be better using IAC ? What are the limit of IAC ?

Paul wrote:

Hi Cyril, 

I wasn´t aware of that.

 

Cheeky Martin 

 

Best

 

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X
Dorico 1.1
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Sun, Jun 07 2015 08:06
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1623

Some clarifications:

The midi buffer size per VEPro plugin was 127 in Logic 10.0.X (and anything before it). It was increased to 511 events in Logic 10.1.

This buffer applies per process block. VE Pro uses a midi buffer size of 16384 events per block (per plugin/instance).

We have now released 3 iterations of the Multiport environment. The first version multiplied MIDI traffic by 3. The second version (combined with a later VEPro version) cut this down to 2. The last release keeps the multiplier at 2, but slightly simplifies the environment layout.

The history of maximum numer of MIDI events in Logic has thus been:

Logic 10.0 + Multiport 1 = 42 events per block
Logic 10.0 + Multiport 2/3 = 127/2 = 63 events per block
Logic 10.1 + Multiport 2/3 = 511/2 = 255 events per block

IE, your arrangement can now be 6x more bombastic than when using the first multiport version with Logic 10.0.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Sun, Jun 07 2015 15:12
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2455

Originally Posted by: MS Go to Quoted Post

IE, your arrangement can now be 6x more bombastic than when using the first multiport version with Logic 10.0.

Hi Martin

 

Many thanks for the clarifications.

How does behave IAC ?

If you mix IAC and Multiport what is the traffic limitation ?

Thanks

Best

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X
Dorico 1.1
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Sun, Jun 07 2015 18:39
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1623
Logic imposes the limit of 511 events per buffer on a VEPro AU instrument, and 127 events on any other AU instrument.

Whatever limits IAC might have, I am unaware of. You could try to contact Apple, or why not make a simple test on your own.

VEPro's midi input buffer size remains at 16384 events per process buffer. It is unlikely you will ever reach that limit.
--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Sun, Jun 07 2015 22:19
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2455

Originally Posted by: MS Go to Quoted Post
Logic imposes the limit of 511 events per buffer on a VEPro AU instrument, and 127 events on any other AU instrument.

Whatever limits IAC might have, I am unaware of. You could try to contact Apple, or why not make a simple test on your own.

VEPro's midi input buffer size remains at 16384 events per process buffer. It is unlikely you will ever reach that limit.

 

Hi Martin

thanks for your answer.

I am a bit lost, you say "logic impose 511 event" and later you say "VEpro buffer size is 16384"

Best

 

Cyril

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X
Dorico 1.1
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Jun 08 2015 05:49
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1623
Originally Posted by: Cyril Go to Quoted Post

<p>I am a bit lost, you say "logic impose 511 event" and later you say "VEpro buffer size is 16384"</p>
<p>Best</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Cyril</p>


since Logic's buffer is smaller than VEPro's, that 511 event limit will be reached first. I don't know how buffering with IAC works - nor do I know how Logic handles external midi events. If the buffers are larger there, it might be good for you to know the VEP buffer size, in case you want to investigate this.
--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Thu, Jun 11 2015 22:27
by Martinz
Joined on Wed, Nov 26 2008, Stockholm, Posts 47

Hi, just saw this and I got curious. But I'm not sure how/when/why to use it…

Let's say I want a huge dimension strings ensemble with dimension strings x10, each instrument in MIR. I have dimension strings on a slave computer and MIR on the master computer.

How do I get the audio from 240 instruments (15 ports x 16 channels) from the slave into MIR? Isn't there still a 16 stereo track limitation in Logic?

What's the benefit of the multiport setup instead of just launching another multitimbral VEP-plugin for each 16 channels and connect to the slave and also being able to get audio return on each instrument/channel/track?

www.martinz.se
Setup:
Logic Pro X
Master:
Mac Pro 5,1 12 core 2x3,46 GHz 96 GB ram Lynx E44
Slave:
Mac Pro 3,1 8 core 2x2,8 GHz 16 GB ram
Posted on Fri, Jun 12 2015 03:35
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2455

Originally Posted by: Martinz Go to Quoted Post

How do I get the audio from 240 instruments (15 ports x 16 channels) from the slave into MIR? Isn't there still a 16 stereo track limitation in Logic?

MIR needs to be installed on the Slave 

On the Master you put Logic 

You use the best computer as a slave as Logic does not need many resources to run

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X
Dorico 1.1
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Jun 12 2015 07:36
by oldskool
Joined on Sat, Sep 08 2012, Posts 7

Nice work Cyril!  Can you please explain what the transformer is doing?  I see that they fix the 2nd byte of each MIDI event to the port#, but why?  and how does any note or controller information get through?

I have already started retrofitting my template for the new MultiPort Layer posted a few weeks ago, and I want to know if I can just replace the macros with these new transformers?

Posted on Fri, Jun 12 2015 09:49
by Martinz
Joined on Wed, Nov 26 2008, Stockholm, Posts 47

Originally Posted by: Cyril Go to Quoted Post

MIR needs to be installed on the Slave 

On the Master you put Logic 

You use the best computer as a slave as Logic does not need many resources to run

Thanks for the answer Cyril. That makes sense in that case.

 

Let's compare these setups:

Setup 1 (my current setup): Master i the best computer and has Logic for composition and mixing, MIR (the reverb plugin loaded on each track in Logic), lots of non-VSL stuff, no multiport; 1 VEP-plugin for each 16 channels. Slave 1 has Dimension strings on 2 VEP instances (2x 16 instruments) and slave 2 has woodwinds and dimension brass on 2 VEP instances. So there are a total of 4 multitimbral VEP-plugins loaded in Logic. VSL Percussion and other instruments are loaded on master computer.

Setup 2: Master is the second best computer. Logic for composition and summing, multiportsetup for 2 slaves (2 VEP-plugins loaded in Logic). Best computer is slave 1 and has all VSL, non-VSL (like kontakt) and MIR loaded. Slave 2 for instruments that do not require MIR, like synths, else mostly a useless slave.

So I'm trying to understand why setup 2 would be better. Is the performance in VEP better than in Logic Pro X? Are there other reasons? The only one I can see for certain is that I would get the dry/wet audio from MIR on separate audio returns. 

www.martinz.se
Setup:
Logic Pro X
Master:
Mac Pro 5,1 12 core 2x3,46 GHz 96 GB ram Lynx E44
Slave:
Mac Pro 3,1 8 core 2x2,8 GHz 16 GB ram
Posted on Fri, Jun 12 2015 11:52
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2455

Originally Posted by: oldskool Go to Quoted Post

Nice work Cyril!  Can you please explain what the transformer is doing?  I see that they fix the 2nd byte of each MIDI event to the port#, but why?  and how does any note or controller information get through?

I have already started retrofitting my template for the new MultiPort Layer posted a few weeks ago, and I want to know if I can just replace the macros with these new transformers?

the transformer add a CC 99 "portnumber" before each midi event

So you can replace the macro with the transformer, you just need to be carefull with the port number

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X
Dorico 1.1
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Jun 12 2015 12:31
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2455

Originally Posted by: Martinz Go to Quoted Post

Setup 2: Master is the second best computer. Logic for composition and summing, multiportsetup for 2 slaves (2 VEP-plugins loaded in Logic). Best computer is slave 1 and has all VSL, non-VSL (like kontakt) and MIR loaded. Slave 2 for instruments that do not require MIR, like synths, else mostly a useless slave.

So I'm trying to understand why setup 2 would be better. Is the performance in VEP better than in Logic Pro X? Are there other reasons? The only one I can see for certain is that I would get the dry/wet audio from MIR on separate audio returns. 

It is less cpu intensive to use VEP

In my setup I have decide to put K5, QLSC, EXS(of course), Omnisphere in Logic and I send the resulted audio to VEP and to MIR

MIR is your concert hall so all instrument should be send to MIR. The problem are instrument like QLSO that does not have a dry signal. You need to find out if an instrument in MIR can be set as DRY !

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X
Dorico 1.1
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Tue, Jul 07 2015 03:57
by Sami Boman
Joined on Wed, Mar 23 2005, Jyväskylä, Finland, Posts 153

I loaded the new multiport template for Logic and I'm using the 2x48 port project. I have the VEP 1 instance on my master computer with Logic and it's working perfectly through all the 48 ports. On the other hand I have the VEP2 instance on my slave computer and it receives midi data only through ports 1, 2 and 3. Ports 4 to 48 are not sending anything to the slave. Does anyone have any idea why this might be so?

Posted on Tue, Jul 07 2015 07:05
by Sami Boman
Joined on Wed, Mar 23 2005, Jyväskylä, Finland, Posts 153

Originally Posted by: Sami Boman Go to Quoted Post

I loaded the new multiport template for Logic and I'm using the 2x48 port project. I have the VEP 1 instance on my master computer with Logic and it's working perfectly through all the 48 ports. On the other hand I have the VEP2 instance on my slave computer and it receives midi data only through ports 1, 2 and 3. Ports 4 to 48 are not sending anything to the slave. Does anyone have any idea why this might be so?

So I studied the problem a little more and it has nothing to do with the master/slave issue. The problem is the VEP 2 instance. Only the three first ports of VEP 2 instance are working no matter if I connect it to a VEP instance on my master computer or a VEP instance on my slave computer. Likewise the VEP 1 instance IS working perfectly with VEP instance on either one of the computers.

Posted on Tue, Jul 07 2015 08:32
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 9482

Hi Sami, 

Did you check how many Ports you have assigned in the VE PRO Preferences on your slave computer?

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
6 Pages123>»
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