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Which DAW and workflow
Last post Fri, Dec 02 2016 by daerp, 15 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Nov 21 2015 23:14
by daerp
Joined on Thu, Jan 18 2007, Toronto, ON CANADA, Posts 148

Hi

I'm an experienced midi musician (is there such a thing?). I own the full library of VSL (not special editions) and Digital Performer 8 and Finale 2014.5. I am totally confused as to how to go about doing a musical mockup of a score I have written (in pencil and paper - remember?) with VSL.

Is DP8 a good DAW solution? If so, do you work in piano roll with keyswitches to change articulations?

Sould I be looking at purchasing Cubase? Is VSL more suited to that enviornment.

I love the performances that have been programmed and available on this site. 

Just not sure where to start.

 

Can someone point me in the direction of a great tutorial? Or to other postings on this site?

THANK YOU

MAC OS X 10.15.2
Finale 26.1
Digital Performer 10.11
VEP7
Many VSL libraries, MIR Pro and Vienna Suite Pro
VIP, Synchron Player, Synchron Pianos
Posted on Sun, Nov 22 2015 10:57
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1572

Hmmm...

You've been a member since 2007, you have all of the VSL collections and you're not sure how to go about making a mockup?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be condescending I'm just wondering what you've been doing with your libraries all this time if you're just now getting around to recording a mockup.

 

Anyway, I think in your case, write your score out in Finale then export to a MIDI file.  I don't own DP8 but if it's like any other professional DAW I'm sure you can then import the MIDI file into your DAW and work from there.

Again I don't own DP8 but I would just remain working within that environment unless it lacks some functionality that you need for your work flow.  If you're filmscoring, Cubase and Nuendo I think are more suited for that because the audio to image sync'ing features are more intuitive.  Then again, I don't use those programs either so maybe somebody else can chime in on that. 


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sun, Nov 22 2015 14:56
by daerp
Joined on Thu, Jan 18 2007, Toronto, ON CANADA, Posts 148

You are quite right to wonder at my experience level after all this time. I bought the libraries thinking I would be doing one thing with my life, and wound up making a left turn. At the time I did several mockups, none of them very musical. And I have used the library with Finale. 

I have since retired and would love to figure out how to get MUSICAL results with the library doing mockups of my own scores, and those of the masters.

Thanks for your advice. I agree that the best way to get the notes into DP8 is by scoring things out in Finale and then exporting as a midi file. The open the midi file in my DAW. (What DAW do you use? It sounds as if you are not using Performer or Cubase or Nuendo).

I think I need to do a major refresher course with Digital Performer, as my guess is that is where I will be able to achieve the results I am looking for. 

I'm also confused about the best way to handle the switching of articulations.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

MAC OS X 10.15.2
Finale 26.1
Digital Performer 10.11
VEP7
Many VSL libraries, MIR Pro and Vienna Suite Pro
VIP, Synchron Player, Synchron Pianos
Posted on Sun, Nov 22 2015 23:17
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1726

Hi

Producing music with samples in connection with a DAW can lead to ver musical result. Which DAW? It should be able to handle miditracks, midicontroller tracks (ability to draw or record controller curves), audio effects (VST, or AAX), It should be able to offer a mixer layout for instrument tracks or audio tracks...

Logic, Cubase, Sonar... are those which a lot of people are working with but there are others which also are doing the job.

First I recommend to load Vienna Instruments without VE into your DAW. So you can learn how to control the samples, controllers and the selection of articulations without any other hurdle. If you are familiar with the new "world of controlling VI" you can use the VE of course as well.

I wish you a lot of success

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Mon, Nov 23 2015 01:31
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1572

A belated welcome to the world of sample libraries!

 

Personally, I use Sonar but it looks lke you're on a Mac and I don't think Cakewalk makes a version for Mac.  Logic seems to be the go to DAW for Mac users but that doesn't mean you should jump the DP ship. 

Again, I would work with what you have.  Discover what limitations DP8 has and if they become intolerable to your work flow then consider something else.  It could be that DP8 might actually have more than what you need but first let's see.

As for your question about articualations, I like keyswitching.  I program the keyswitches into the MIDI in the Piano Roll view.

I've said this a thousand times on this forum before but I will say it again, never let the score dictate what articulations to use for the sonic realization of your score.  The written score may say "Legato" but for some reason a combination of portatos, sustains and portamentos just work better.

Again, welcome to the world of sample libraries!


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Mon, Nov 23 2015 02:22
by daerp
Joined on Thu, Jan 18 2007, Toronto, ON CANADA, Posts 148

Thank you (both) for your notes. I have already made quite a step forward with recording a DP track and then overdubbing keyswitches. The VSL libraries are quite stunning when you start to get control of them. 

MAC OS X 10.15.2
Finale 26.1
Digital Performer 10.11
VEP7
Many VSL libraries, MIR Pro and Vienna Suite Pro
VIP, Synchron Player, Synchron Pianos
Posted on Mon, Nov 23 2015 18:44
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720

Hi,

Use of the most suitable articulation for each note is key so you can end up with a lot of articulations on a single midi track. I used to hand enter the articulations as often I needed changes quicker than I could reliably switch from my keyboard. What sped up the process for me was using the VSL remote (free) on an iPad the connection being over WiFi. You can record all the articulation commands as you go and then move them if necessary in your DAW.

Also use of volume control, crossfade volume and positioning each instrument appropiately in a mix all helps.

Finally if an articulation is not quite fitting try others that might not appear to be obvious choices - in the mix they may provide the desired effect.

Julian

Posted on Mon, Nov 23 2015 21:07
by daerp
Joined on Thu, Jan 18 2007, Toronto, ON CANADA, Posts 148

Thanks for the info. Where can I get the VSL remote program. I looked in the Apps store using my iPad but it wasn't there.

MAC OS X 10.15.2
Finale 26.1
Digital Performer 10.11
VEP7
Many VSL libraries, MIR Pro and Vienna Suite Pro
VIP, Synchron Player, Synchron Pianos
Posted on Tue, Nov 24 2015 01:39
by daerp
Joined on Thu, Jan 18 2007, Toronto, ON CANADA, Posts 148

Thanks Beat

I am intrigued by your phrase, ""world of controlling VI". I wish I knew what that means, because I want to be more aware of how to use these incredible samples that I have purchased.

P

MAC OS X 10.15.2
Finale 26.1
Digital Performer 10.11
VEP7
Many VSL libraries, MIR Pro and Vienna Suite Pro
VIP, Synchron Player, Synchron Pianos
Posted on Tue, Nov 24 2015 07:23
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12106

Hi daerp, 

The VI PRO Remote App is actually a browser based app, and there´s a dedicated manual available for it here. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Nov 24 2015 17:27
by daerp
Joined on Thu, Jan 18 2007, Toronto, ON CANADA, Posts 148

Thanks for the reply. I understand now.

Paul

MAC OS X 10.15.2
Finale 26.1
Digital Performer 10.11
VEP7
Many VSL libraries, MIR Pro and Vienna Suite Pro
VIP, Synchron Player, Synchron Pianos
Posted on Wed, Nov 25 2015 14:55
by fratveno
Joined on Thu, Dec 01 2011, Posts 41

Originally Posted by: daerp Go to Quoted Post

 and Digital Performer 8 and Finale 2014.5. 

Sould I be looking at purchasing Cubase? Is VSL more suited to that enviornment.

Regarding workflow...: If you are into Finale, and prefer to work in traditional notation, it is pretty straight forward to use that as a front end to a DAW.  Personally, I use Cubase (and to a certain degree Reaper) and VSL VEP to host all the instruments, and route MIDI OUT from Finale to the DAW via internal (virtual) Midi Cables.  When you record arm the tracks in the DAW you have live, interactive playback any time.  If you want to record Midi into the DAW you just press the red button... much simpler than exporting and importing Midi Files.  Articulation switching is done with Finale's Human Playback system.  The culprit (for many) is that you have to learn and program that yourself.  A starting point for learning this is to look at some premade files, such at the one available from VSL, and expand on that. My orchestral template uses HP Prefs for 13 different libraries from over 10 companies. (PM me if you want to know which ones:)). It works great, and there is usually very little post-editing to do in the DAW if you utilize Finale's capabilites to the max, such as Shape Playback etc...

best,

Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 05:39
by daerp
Joined on Thu, Jan 18 2007, Toronto, ON CANADA, Posts 148
Originally Posted by: fratveno Go to Quoted Post
<p>
Originally Posted by: daerp Go to Quoted Post
</p>
<p>&nbsp;and Digital Performer 8 and Finale 2014.5.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Sould I be looking at purchasing Cubase? Is VSL more suited to that enviornment.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Regarding workflow...: If you are into Finale, and prefer to work in traditional notation, it is pretty straight forward to use that as a front end to a DAW. &nbsp;Personally, I use Cubase (and to a certain degree Reaper) and VSL VEP to host all the instruments, and route MIDI OUT from Finale to the DAW via internal (virtual) Midi Cables. &nbsp;When you record arm the tracks in the DAW you have live, interactive playback any time. &nbsp;If you want to record Midi into the DAW you just press the red button... much simpler than exporting and importing Midi Files. &nbsp;Articulation switching is done with Finale's Human Playback system. &nbsp;The culprit (for many) is that you have to learn and program that yourself. &nbsp;A starting point for learning this is to look at some premade files, such at the one available from VSL, and expand on that. My orchestral template uses HP Prefs for 13 different&nbsp;libraries from over 10 companies. (PM me if you want to know which ones:)). It works great, and there is usually very little post-editing to do in the DAW if you utilize Finale's capabilites to the max, such as Shape Playback etc...</p>
<p>best,</p>


Hi
I just reread this old thread and have 2 questions if you have two questions.
1) how do I connect Finale to DP through virtual midi cables? Is that done through the Audi/midi setup utility somehow?
2) where does one find HP prefs for VSL? The only file I've seen is the keyswitch dump file.
Thanks. I hope you see this😀
P
MAC OS X 10.15.2
Finale 26.1
Digital Performer 10.11
VEP7
Many VSL libraries, MIR Pro and Vienna Suite Pro
VIP, Synchron Player, Synchron Pianos
Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 07:07
by johnstaf
Joined on Thu, Apr 21 2011, EI, Posts 216

If you have your music complete in Finale, you might be better off exporting a midi file and leaving it in your DAW. Passing MIDI through a virtual cable won't give you the most important advantage of a DAW, which is more powerful MIDI editing; a realistic mockup requires lots of MIDI editing. I export midi with no human preferences into Cubase. I would use MusicXML, but Cubase can't import it properly from Finale.

Cubase (OS agnostic). Various VSL bits and pieces.

Posted on Fri, Dec 02 2016 10:52
by daerp
Joined on Thu, Jan 18 2007, Toronto, ON CANADA, Posts 148
Originally Posted by: johnstaf Go to Quoted Post
<p>If you have your music complete in Finale, you might be better off exporting a midi file and leaving it in your DAW. Passing MIDI through a virtual cable won't give you the most important advantage of a DAW, which is more powerful MIDI editing; a realistic mockup requires lots of MIDI editing. I export midi with no human preferences into Cubase. I would use MusicXML, but Cubase can't import it properly from Finale.</p>


I use Finale and Digital Performer 9. I compose in Finale, sometimes I use VSL, sometimes just using a piano sound or at other times Garritan sounds. Whichever is easiest and then export a midi file and do the bulk of the editing (key switches, controllers etc.) in DP. Would the virtual midi cable hookup be a good idea for me? It sounds promising. And if so, can you tell me how that is done?
Paul
MAC OS X 10.15.2
Finale 26.1
Digital Performer 10.11
VEP7
Many VSL libraries, MIR Pro and Vienna Suite Pro
VIP, Synchron Player, Synchron Pianos
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