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Will VSL Release any New String Libraries?
Last post Sat, Dec 12 2015 by nektarios, 26 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Dec 08 2015 19:42
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

 

I am just curious, is VSL is planning any new string libraries? I own them all, but I think what is missing is a very large ensemble -- like 100 strings! I find myself having to layer the different libraries to achieve a larger number, but recording 100 strings must sound totally awesome. I would buy a library like that in a heartbeat...  Maybe call this library epic strings?

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 06:37
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 517
Silent Stage is too small for 100 players I fear ;)Think about the costs for the Players ...
Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 14:42
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

Well if the silent stage won't fit them, you go to a bigger stage... And if 100 string players are expensive, you price the product appropriately. :-) In any case, this product would be well worth the premium price!

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 17:56
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Nah, a compete waste of money. Appassionata is not far of this number, and having more makes no sense sonically.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 18:46
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

With this logic, anyone who buys Orchestral Strings, would waste their money buying Appassionata Strings. For example, you have 14 violins in Orchestral vs 20 violins in Appassionata. I do think when you have a very large number of strings can make a difference sonically, and there are genres that require it. I can certainly layer the libraries, but it's not the same really.

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 19:09
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Originally Posted by: nektarios Go to Quoted Post

With this logic, anyone who buys Orchestral Strings, would waste their money buying Appassionata Strings. For example, you have 14 violins in Orchestral vs 20 violins in Appassionata. I do think when you have a very large number of strings can make a difference sonically, and there are genres that require it. I can certainly layer the libraries, but it's not the same really.

14 to 20 is quite a big difference. After 20 it is pretty much a waste of time. Even with 20 you would have a string section of around 70 which is quite big enough. Could you point me to an orchestral recording that uses more, so that I can hear the difference you are talking about. I have played in String ensembles that have had these sorts of numbers, and the actual sound was pretty much no different to a group of 60-70 players.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 19:33
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

Well I was looking at a competing product and liked the sound I heard. Here is the clip where they demonstrate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G5Hs7ctR9k#action=share

Go to 6:05 and onwards and hear the sustain patches. I always wanted patches sounding like this...

Btw, I realized they also use 20 violins. Obviously, this is not VSL, and not as flexible and room sound is baked in, but I like the string sound a lot. 

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 20:23
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 333

Hm, I don't know ... I think that this "bigger, bolder, louder" approach is marketing thing first and foremost. Things have become very loud and very big in the scoring world, and I'm not sure if there's a lot of room left for further gains before the last bits of musical subtlety are smothered underneath.

Appassionata Strings, Epic Horns and Fanfare Trumpets are already very big, and can be made to sound even more over the top by rather simple means. Does it really need more? Perhaps it may sound impressive to some when a sample library developer announces their new 200-piece-choir, or their "low woods" ensemble comprised of 15 bass clarinets and 15 contra bassoons. Makes me chuckle a bit though, and I'm not even making these numbers up. Not sure if that's the train we really need to see VSL jumping on.

There's a point after which things stop sounding bigger and mightier by adding more. Instead it starts to sound weaker, toneless, blunt, less focused and actually more fake. And then you have to make it somewhat crisp and firm through processing and trickery. Imagine if developers did that to their commercial libraries!..

Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 21:02
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

 

Jimmy, 

I agree with what you say. This competing library is totally unusable for my needs... The interesting thing is that I never look for a bolder and lounder sound, to be honest. What I am looking for is very soft string sustains. Sometimes I feel VSL does not go "soft" enough for my needs. I am talking about veeery soft sustains... With some work, I've been able to get the sound I want, but I still feel that it could go further in the direction I envision.

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 21:32
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

In orchestral terminology, I need a velocity layer of ppp for my strings. Maybe the next string library can have 8 velocity layers...

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
Posted on Wed, Dec 09 2015 21:58
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

Originally Posted by: nektarios Go to Quoted Post

Well I was looking at a competing product and liked the sound I heard. Here is the clip where they demonstrate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G5Hs7ctR9k#action=share

Go to 6:05 and onwards and hear the sustain patches. I always wanted patches sounding like this...

Btw, I realized they also use 20 violins. Obviously, this is not VSL, and not as flexible and room sound is baked in, but I like the string sound a lot. 

Yes, but not ony is this really synthetic sounding, it is also not 100 players and not a recording of an orchestra, so it doestn't really help your cause much.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Thu, Dec 10 2015 07:36
by Casiquire
Joined on Sat, May 01 2010, Posts 325

I think that demo is more about how the sounds are processed than anything else.  Lots of reverb, lots of warmth without losing too much clarity.

 

There's definitely a point where "more" doesn't actually sound bigger, just fuzzier.

Posted on Thu, Dec 10 2015 15:04
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

Well what he is demonstrating in the video is their patches out of the box. They did not add any reverb. You just hear the "room sound" from their multiple mics. I am sure there was EQ involved, and some processing with harmonic distortion, but I've heard this kind of sustain string sound even on live performances, and I have been trying to mimic this sound with VSL to some success, which can be done by layering different libraries. In my case it was, Appassionata Strings, Dimension Strings, and Chamber Violins. Although, even without the Chamber violins, it sounded satisfactory.

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
Posted on Fri, Dec 11 2015 05:47
by Casiquire
Joined on Sat, May 01 2010, Posts 325
I see, though the VSL model tends to be to record dry so I'd be surprised if they made something like that.
Posted on Fri, Dec 11 2015 14:47
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

 

Originally Posted by: Casiquire Go to Quoted Post
I see, though the VSL model tends to be to record dry so I'd be surprised if they made something like that.

Indeed, no dry samples, very limitied set of articulations, no repetition patches, and hence, makes this library totally unusable for me...

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
Posted on Fri, Dec 11 2015 15:16
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

My only wish is that VSL string libraries had more velocity layers -- especially covering the softer velocities.

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
Posted on Fri, Dec 11 2015 18:14
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 953

Originally Posted by: nektarios Go to Quoted Post

My only wish is that VSL string libraries had more velocity layers -- especially covering the softer velocities.

good point: more velocity-layers (in both directions from ppp to fff)

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Posted on Sat, Dec 12 2015 01:33
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1572

Originally Posted by: nektarios Go to Quoted Post

My only wish is that VSL string libraries had more velocity layers -- especially covering the softer velocities.

 

I don't know anything about strings so forgive me if this question is just off-the-wall ignorance but don't the mutes cover the softer velocities?

 

Regarding bigger string sounds: Iv'e heard of composers blending real large string ensembles with large sampled string ensembles to create this gargantuan string sound but I'm not so sure that bigger means better.  In fact, I get rather annoyed with these massive in your face orchestral sounds but I guess it boils down to each his own.  For me though, less is more.

Incidently, if VSL is working on a new string library they're definately not going to announce it until it's ready.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sat, Dec 12 2015 01:40
by Casiquire
Joined on Sat, May 01 2010, Posts 325
Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nektarios Go to Quoted Post

My only wish is that VSL string libraries had more velocity layers -- especially covering the softer velocities.


I don't know anything about strings so forgive me if this question is just off-the-wall ignorance but don't the mutes cover the softer velocities?



Yes but more importantly than volume, mutes change the sound of the instruments. A muted violin does not sound like a violin played quietly. It's more about getting a softer texture rather than a softer dynamic if you get what I mean.
Posted on Sat, Dec 12 2015 02:39
by nektarios
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, New Jersey, United States, Posts 468

Originally Posted by: Casiquire Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nektarios Go to Quoted Post
My only wish is that VSL string libraries had more velocity layers -- especially covering the softer velocities.
I don't know anything about strings so forgive me if this question is just off-the-wall ignorance but don't the mutes cover the softer velocities?
Yes but more importantly than volume, mutes change the sound of the instruments. A muted violin does not sound like a violin played quietly. It's more about getting a softer texture rather than a softer dynamic if you get what I mean.

Exactly. When I first bought my VSL String libs, I was trying to create a veeery soft passage, so I pushed my Velocity xFade all the way down to 1, and even though it was much lower in volume, it didn't have the soft texture of a ppp velocity layer. 

In general though, I am very happy with VSL, and I have been able to achieve this grand sound. A trick I use sometimes is to match EQ any strings I like on my VSL Strings, so becomes very fun... 

_____

Cubase Pro 8, Windows 7 64 bit @ 64 GB RAM
Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W @ 3.10GHz
Dimension Strings (Full)
Chamber Strings I+II (Full)
Appassionata Strings I+II (Full)
Orchestral Strings I+II (Full)
Solo Strings I (Full)
Vienna Imperial
Saxophones (Full)
Woodwinds I (Full)
Brass II (Full)
Dimension Brass (Full)
Upright Bass
Percussion (Full)
Overdrive
Jazz Drums
Vienna Choir
Soprano Choir
Solo Voices (Full)
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