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Articulation levels need help
Last post Thu, May 19 2016 by TFIS, 12 replies.
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Posted on Wed, May 04 2016 15:12
by GregV
Joined on Thu, Mar 24 2016, Posts 4

Hi all !!!

I ve just had my first taste of Vienna samples by purchasing SE 1 and Appassionata 1 and i m completely taken by the sound of it and the actual versatility (resources management etc) of the Instruments and Ensemble Programs.

I m gonna try my first attempt on scoring for a short film and my question to anyone who can help is this:

For the sake of controlling articulations in an instrument line i create an instance for the instrument where i place every articulation i need in a separate track (seperate midi channel) feeding every individual intsr track in a midi track in my DAW (SONAR) and all these articulation midi tracks feed an audio track.

With this setup i think i can split my main line and move the notes between articulations just by draging the notes into the midi "articulation labeled" tracks in my DAW without mch effort.

The problem i have is that i find the different articulations for the same instrument most of the times unbalanced in level and though i can easily balance them by adjusting the vol controls in ensemble for every track i think i can never be sure i have the flattest volume outcome.I mean a line playing through the various articulations may have its ups and downs just because its moving through the different articulations.

So is there a way i can manage this and be certain of my levels?

And i m open to suggestions coz i m new to this and i could be setting it wrong in many ways..

Sorry if this matter is opened/closed in another thread i didnt manage to go through the threads in the forum yet.

Grigoris Vartholomeos
Posted on Fri, May 06 2016 20:09
by Francesco Pirrone
Joined on Tue, Sep 30 2014, Posts 245

Hi Grigoris,

i am a bit confused but i will try to help you:

if you are looking for an easier way to manage volume levels between articulations you might be interested into the 'Advanced' view of Vienna Instruments (or Pro). As you can see in the screenshot there's a fader right above the A5 Key in the virtual keyboard, that fader controls the volume for that actual cell in the matrix, so you will always be able to set different volumes for each articulation, whether you are planning to use multiple MIDI tracks for each instrument or just one MIDI track for each instrument (therefore keyswitching between articulations).

I am afraid we can only set this levels by ear, i might be wrong though.

I hope this helps.

Best Regards

Francesco

Composer and Score Mixer -> www.francescopirrone.com
Posted on Sun, May 08 2016 11:30
by GregV
Joined on Thu, Mar 24 2016, Posts 4

Thank you for your reply Francesco.

As i m reading the last days more thoroughly i understand that i might be wrong on the articulation per track

approach and also i m also almost sure about the levels that it should be done by ear mostly post recording.

I just wanted to be able to start from a fairly flat point so i can fine tune the levels later but i ll have to do with

how it is as everyone i suppose. :)

Thanks again!!!

Grigoris Vartholomeos
Posted on Mon, May 09 2016 12:56
by Francesco Pirrone
Joined on Tue, Sep 30 2014, Posts 245

Hi Grigoris,

you are welcome.

In truth, i might be wrong but i do assume everybody is doing what you have in mind by ear. 

Lots of people is using one track per articulation, you might wish doing that for a number of reasons (different Eq and Comp settings between the same instrument articulations, use of a template with other libraries which don't allow keyswitching etc....).

Nevertheless, Vienna Instruments allows to mange very easily all the articulations (and dynamics) by MIDI CC and Keyswitching, making your template looking like a 'traditional' score with one stave per instrument and making the stave itself a very playable instrument. I just would like to point out that Vienna Instrument converted me from dragging notes into the Piano Roll to playing everything. Once you have a melody in mind you set the articulations and play it, if they are not balanced you can adjust their volumes from the VI cell fader and play the melody again.....here is how i proceed.

Please be aware i am not trying to say that one method is better than a different one, it's only a matter of personal preferences.

Sincerely

Francesco

Composer and Score Mixer -> www.francescopirrone.com
Posted on Wed, May 11 2016 16:20
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

In the old Gigastudio it was necessary to put each articulation on separate channels and it was a nightmare.  It is much easier to put them all on the same channel - and more like a player performing the music - with the instant switching between articulations possible in the cells within Vienna Instruments.  If there are volume levels on a single articulation that need to be adjusted, you can do so in the editor window. 

Posted on Wed, May 11 2016 18:17
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1055

> In the old Gigastudio it was necessary to put each articulation on separate channels

Actually, Gigastudio was the pioneer of keywitching, and liberated people from using separate channels...

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Posted on Thu, May 12 2016 03:12
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

edit - sorry, whenever anyone mentions Gigastudio I start twitching uncontrollably and frothing. I will increase my medication next time I look at the Forum. 

Posted on Mon, May 16 2016 18:41
by GregV
Joined on Thu, Mar 24 2016, Posts 4

Thank you all for your replies!

i d like to ask another thing..

As a beginner i see a lot of guys in videos recording a little bit in the start of every instr track

containing cc info for it to set the apropriate lvls for lets say expression or velo..etc

I quite dont seem to get the philosophy or the "magic" of it..can someone explain?

Grigoris Vartholomeos
Posted on Mon, May 16 2016 20:52
by MassMover
Joined on Mon, Sep 29 2008, Posts 236

... to set the apropriate lvls for lets say expression or velo..etc ...

well, you figured out the purpose already, didn't you? When you want to use some of the more advanced midi functions of the VI player, like humanization, attack levels etc. you have to tell the VI-PlugIn someplace what value to be set to, so where else than before the actual piece should that be?

Posted on Tue, May 17 2016 00:03
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

It is actually important to set to zero, or no effect (sometimes a middle value) , any controllers you are going to use at the beginning of a track because sometimes instruments will be - for one example - down in CC11 expression, and sound strangely quiet, and you can't figure out what is wrong - and then you find out that it was because they had previously responded to CC11 and not been reset.  This has happened to me many times and can drive one crazy. Another example is accidentally having something on crossfade, and you are hitting the keyboard as hard as you can and nothing gets louder and you start screaming.  (And Gigastudio is not even involved!)   So I now have a "zeroing" measure at the beginning of every track for all of the controllers that might be used.  Usually expression, mod, pitch, etc.  It is easily done by simply copying the measure to all instruments. 

Posted on Wed, May 18 2016 10:16
by GregV
Joined on Thu, Mar 24 2016, Posts 4
i have set my master template so that in every instrument the levels for cc s are all right where i need them to be.So when i play from the start it actually is interpreted quite normal.maybe this technique of having prerecorded the cc s is used for when atfer the song ends and some cc s are stuck to the last known position of the end of the track and not reseted by rewind?

And yet another question..
I noticed that there s no way to assign down or up strokes which might be really important in some pieces of violins so when i find a stroke thats turned upside down i place a note in between with vol to zero which gives me the ability to turn it kinda on demand because i think vienna assigns strokes incrementally.anyone?
Many thanks again for all the replys guys you all been much help!!!!
Grigoris Vartholomeos
Posted on Thu, May 19 2016 11:24
by TFIS
Joined on Tue, Dec 14 2010, Posts 106

I recommend the video about performance repititions of the VIPro player.

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