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Posted on Thu, Nov 24 2016 15:12
by Nache
Joined on Tue, Nov 19 2013, Posts 3

hi there,

I lost my eLicencer USB key recently and afer buying a new one that I regeistered on my VSL account I received this amazing feedback from the support department::

Generally, the most valuable part of our products is the license which is stored on the key. With eLicenser (owned by Steinberg / Yamaha), we don't have access to the licenses on the keys of our users, so we're not able to restore and/or transfer any lost or stolen license to a new key, or to block or remove licenses on a lost/stolen key. The problem with that is that whoever finds the key can use all your registered products without any restriction, if he also has access to the samples and software, e.g., from a friend, and with eLicenser's technology there's nothing we can do about it!

Basically every user is responsible for his keys and licenses himself, we're not obliged to replace any lost or stolen licenses or keys at all, like e.g. lost or stolen jewelry wouldn't be replaced unless it's insured.
I'm afraid this means that you will have to purchase new licenses if your key doesn't show up again.

This email suggests that VSL do not have any control on the eLicencer security process which I seriously doubt and by extention, this suggests also that if your USB key is lost, broken, defective or corrupted by any virus you will have to pay again to retreive your entire collection. Most of the major conpanies have implemented  ZERO DOWNTIME procedures to allow the users a permanent acces to what he paid for... Why not VSL?

I'm sharing this with you because it is someting that I would have to know before investing (I lost?) a lot of money.

Anyway, as was considering to buy a solo cello and this sad story led me to the Spitfire web site where I found an excelent ARTISAN CELLO that perfectly work without any unreliabe and outdated USB device.

I wonder if some of you expenrienced the same problem and if you have any idea how to go through this mess?

I own for about 1000€ of VSL products that I cannot obviouly buy again

Thanks for your support

Philippe

Posted on Fri, Nov 25 2016 11:00
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1572

Yeah exactly!

Read this before buying and, while you're at it, read the other umteen thousand threads on this same topic before buying as well


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Fri, Nov 25 2016 11:36
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2658

Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post

Yeah exactly!

Read this before buying and, while you're at it, read the other umteen thousand threads on this same topic before buying as well

I am scared too ; I have more than 10 000 € of VSL licenses !

I dont understand why VSL is not putting pressure on Steinberg so we can handle our licenses.

VSL is loosing clients.

There is a vey simple way to do it.

You store the License an the dongle number on your computer and on Steinberg site.

So if you lose you dongle you disable the license and the dongle you lost and you move your license to a new dongle. VSL has just to add a routine in VE and VI to check once a month if the dongle is still valid

 

The other solution is that VSL uses the App Store as protection

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Nov 25 2016 13:16
by Andreas 1
Joined on Fri, Jun 09 2006, Posts 35

I read somewhere that Steinberg and VSL are working on a close integration from Vienna Instruments in Dorico. I hope that this is true. Perhaps this would be also a chance for a better solution for the dongle problem.

In the past a worked often in the train with Vienna Instruments, but in the meantime, I no longer dare to do that.

Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2016 05:35
by P.Posayanonth
Joined on Sat, Nov 23 2013, Bangkok, Thailand, Posts 39

I read somewhere in this forum that the situation can be a bit compromised.

- If your Vienna Key is broken under the warranty, you can get replacement free of charge

- If your Vienna Key is broken without the warranty, you need to pay around 40 Euros (can't remember the exact figure) for each license you have, but not for the product price.

- If your Vienna Key is lost, you might get a small discount on your owned products. But yeah, you'll have to buy it again.

Vienna Key warranty lasts for 2 years, so you'll need to buy and transfer your licenses to the new one before it goes off. 

The way they compared Vienna Key with jewelry is ironically right. It is as valuable as jewelry for many people here. Even I disagree with this inconvenience but I believe that it is the reason why you could never find VSL softwares being cracked.

I can only hope that you'll get over this horrible situation soon and that it will never happen to anyone again, including myself.

VSL Products:
Vienna Instruments Pro
Vienna Ensemble Pro 5
Vienna MIRx - Berlin Teldex Studio Aufnahmesaal
Vienna MIR PRO + Roompacks 1-5
Vienna Suite
Special Edition 1, 1+
Symphonic Cube (Full)
Appassionata Strings 1 (Full)

System:
Apple Mac Pro (Late 2019)
- Intel Xeon W-3235 3300 MHz (12 cores)
- RAM 32 GB
Samsung External SSD T1 250GB USB 3.0
Samsung External SSD T1 500GB USB 3.0
Samsung External SSD T5 2TB USB 3.1
Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2016 10:29
by falineleo
Joined on Fri, Oct 30 2015, Posts 19

I'd like to purchase all the VSL's super package and really have a plan near before long, but now I'm so scared by reading this forum...

I really love VSL's all the libraries and softwares, but IMO, the most important thing is that composers and arrangers have the satety in mind when they're making music. Accidents can happen anytime. I haven't recognized this issue well, but in this policy, If I buy much more VSL's licenses, probably I'll always feel anxiety.

...just desperately hoping that this would be improved between VSL and Steinberg. I began to be confident that VSL's libraries are my lifelong companion OTL.

Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2016 13:55
by Simon Hanna
Joined on Sat, Mar 26 2011, Australia, Posts 30
I was told by VSL to get insurance. I tried and no company would insure a USB or licences.

So yeah.. crap situation
Posted on Wed, Nov 30 2016 16:46
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2658

Originally Posted by: Simon Hanna Go to Quoted Post
I was told by VSL to get insurance. I tried and no company would insure a USB or licences.

So yeah.. crap situation

Insurances are insuring hardware, not vapor ware.

I have tried many insurances in France, England, Switzerland, Germany, even companies that VSL indicate me !!!!!

The answer is the same, we can insure the dongle for 25 euro, but not the licenses it's contains

I have propose that VSL negociate a contract with an Insurance company ! they dont care a damm ! the answer is : This is not our job. 

I was thinking to buy Dimension String for XMAS ! 

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 03:03
by Michael Machado
Joined on Mon, Nov 22 2010, Posts 45

Is there a way to backup the licenses on another eLicenser?

Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 03:52
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2658

Originally Posted by: Michael Machado Go to Quoted Post

Is there a way to backup the licenses on another eLicenser?

NO

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 18:49
by matteo
Joined on Mon, Apr 07 2008, Switzerland, Posts 56
So i should buy a new vienna key every two years? :(
Vienna SE Plus Extended, Appassionata Strings I, Woodwinds I, Brass I, Saxophones, Fanfare Trumpets, Flügelhorn, Solo Voices, Konzerthaus Orgel – MIRx, VIP – iMac 27" Intel Core i7 40 GB RAM
Posted on Thu, Dec 01 2016 23:14
by julian
Joined on Fri, Jan 07 2005, UK, Posts 720

I have ongoing concerns about the "fragility" of my VSL licenses.

Having spent many thousands of pounds/dollars/euros over the years I feel it would be timely for VSL to investigate a solution that addressed the high percentage of their users so (rightly) concerned about losing the licenses they have purchased.

Posted on Fri, Dec 02 2016 03:50
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 513
I think this line taken from VSL's response to the original poster explains why they won't find a solution: Generally, the most valuable part of our products is the license which is stored on the key.

Is it corporate greed, arrogance, indifference, or some other reason that compels a company to essentially "stick it" to their customers? That's for them to answer, and us to suffer the consequences of their decision.

Dave
www.DavidCarovillano.com - NEW SITE!
www.acclarion.ca - concert accordion & clarinet duo
Posted on Tue, Dec 06 2016 09:16
by Dup
Joined on Fri, Aug 13 2004, Posts 178

Hello,

 I was so afraid about this problem that I put andscattered  all my licences ( a lot: all vsl, steinberg, ....) in eleven  elecenser USB key!!

but the problem is the time of scanning the licences when we have a lot of usb key:

1'45" to open  vienna ensemble pro 6

than 45" to insert a vienna instrument in VIP pro

more than 50sec to open dorico etc...

but put like 20.000 euro in one ubs key? I need some feedback of you to take the risk

Best regards

Dup

Posted on Wed, Dec 07 2016 01:55
by Nitrox 32
Joined on Sun, Mar 15 2009, Posts 140

To the original poster....this was quite an eye opener.  I have both VSL and Eastwest libraries.  Last summer my Ilok stopped working.  I had to contact PACE to get a new key and have my licenses reactivated.  It took a couple of weeks but I was not out of all the money that I put into Eastwest.  I also have invested a few thousand dollars into VSL.  This seems to be a huge concern and more customers should be aware.  I simply cannot believe that a company that can produce such high quality sounds and the software to run it can't come up with a solution.  I know for myself, if my key is lost, I cannot afford to replace my products.  I will have to return to Eastwest and VSL will end up losing another costumer for good.  How should we as customers go about complaining?  Who should we collectively complain to other than voicing our dissatisfaction in this forum?

Posted on Wed, Dec 07 2016 12:44
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 367
I asked my assurance company in the Netherlands. When I use the e-licensers just in home, they are covered by the home insurance, because software is covered by that insurance.
Posted on Wed, Dec 07 2016 13:05
by tek0010
Joined on Wed, Jun 17 2015, Posts 50

Originally Posted by: Acclarion Go to Quoted Post
Is it corporate greed, arrogance, indifference, or some other reason that compels a company to essentially "stick it" to their customers?

Have they broken their contract with you? The contract you agreed to at the time of purchase? If you've changed your mind since then, aren't you free to sell your license to someone else? Greed would be if VSL forced you to buy their products against your will; so this doesn't look like greed to me. Please learn not to sign contracts you dislike; this should solve your feeling that companies are "sticking it to you". When you buy a product, you don't get a slave you can order around; you only get what was in the agreement.

VSL could add value to their products by adding insurance against lost/stolen keys.

Posted on Wed, Dec 07 2016 15:30
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 513
Originally Posted by: tek0010 Go to Quoted Post
<p>
Originally Posted by: Acclarion Go to Quoted Post
Is it corporate greed, arrogance, indifference, or some other reason that compels a company to essentially "stick it" to their customers?
</p>
<p>Have they broken&nbsp;their contract with you? The contract you agreed to at the time of purchase? If you've changed your mind since then, aren't you free to sell your license to someone else? Greed would be if VSL forced you to buy their products against your will; so this doesn't look like greed to me.&nbsp;Please learn not to sign contracts you dislike; this should solve your feeling that companies are "sticking it to you". When you&nbsp;buy a product, you don't get a slave you can order around; you only get what was in the agreement.</p>
<p>VSL could add value to their products by adding insurance against lost/stolen keys.</p>


You sound like a "letter of the law" type person. Nobody is claiming that they are not within their LEGAL rights. Rather, in the court of public opinion, they could do better by their customers; those individuals that fund their operations are speaking loudly and repeatedly that they are not comfortable with the terms imposed upon them and would like to see VSL seek a more amenable solution that protects both VSL's interests and the significant investments of their customers in VSL's products.

Your metaphor about buying a "slave to order around" serves no purpose other than to offer a colourful analogy that doesn't even make sense. By the way, as you might know if you're in business, making efforts to address and allay the concerns of your customers will go further to benefitting your long term interests than stubbornly standing your ground based on legal terms and conditions. VSL is capable of changing and/or modifying their licensing system; the question is, do they see a long term gain in satisfying their customers' requests.

Oh, I'll learn not to sign contracts I don't like, when you learn not to be so condescending.
www.DavidCarovillano.com - NEW SITE!
www.acclarion.ca - concert accordion & clarinet duo
Posted on Wed, Dec 07 2016 22:23
by tek0010
Joined on Wed, Jun 17 2015, Posts 50

VSL could offer insurance as an option. The cost of the insurance could be passed on to customers: Customers who want the insurance pay for the insurance; customers who don't want to pay for the insurance don't get the insurance.

Posted on Thu, Dec 08 2016 05:03
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2658

Originally Posted by: MMKA Go to Quoted Post
I asked my assurance company in the Netherlands. When I use the e-licensers just in home, they are covered by the home insurance, because software is covered by that insurance.

Double check this and have it in writing ! words are flying ;)

Can you give us the Name of the company because so far I have contact many companies, and no one will insure the contents of the dongle, they will insure only cost of the replacement of the dongle !!!! 25 € 

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
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