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Another problem with the Vienna key
Last post Fri, Dec 16 2016 by Piotr Katzpersky, 15 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Dec 10 2016 23:07
by Andreas 1
Joined on Fri, Jun 09 2006, Posts 35

Since I know that I have to pay 50% if I lose my key, I stopped working outside of my home with VSL. I'm using Logic and Finale for my projects. But if I try to open a Logic or Finale project without the key often I get a crash.

Usually I'm working every week about 20 hours outside of my home on my compositions. Because of the Key problems I'm losing now this time for my music.

Posted on Sun, Dec 11 2016 10:23
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608

There is no solution, other than taking your key with you, and looking after it, much as you would if you were carrying round a Violin.

DG

Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Sun, Dec 11 2016 14:09
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 950

Or your car keys...

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Mon, Dec 12 2016 04:44
by Nitrox 32
Joined on Sun, Mar 15 2009, Posts 140

Except I won't have to pay 50% percent of my car to get it back.

Posted on Mon, Dec 12 2016 13:19
by musos
Joined on Sun, Dec 08 2002, Johannesburg, South Africa, Posts 912

I posted some suggestions in another thread about the Vienna Key problem:
http://tinyurl.com/hagl28t

I repeat my comments here and welcome feedback, particularly from our friends at VSL.

This whole issue with licensing really needs attention and improvement.

When I first realised that the keys "expire" after 2 years, I started buying 2 new keys every 2 years, just in case. (My licenses span 2 keys)

I now have a drawer full of perfectly functioning keys that will probably never be used again. 

Despite this 2-yearly purchase of new keys, I will still have to pay more money to get my licences back if a key fails. If a key gets lost, I will have to re-purchase the libraries at huge expense.

What I don't understand is this:
eLicenser controls the licensing procedure and they appear to have a record of all licence details. (Correct me if I'm wrong please). If they have a secure database, why is it not possible to report a key stolen or lost or broken? Then the reported key could be listed as non-functional which would allow the legal user to simply retrieve his/her licences.

Of course, there would have to be a method to prevent the stolen or lost key from being used somewhere else. A suggestion would be for a regular check of each key by the eLicenser software. If the check showed that the key was reported stolen or lost, the licences on the key would be disabled or deleted. If the check was not performed regularly, then the key would stop working. Of course this would be a minor irritation for legal users, but nothing compared to the nightmare of having to buy 1000's of Euros worth of software again.

These are just random thoughts on the matter - hopefully our friends at VSL will consider these suggestions and either take it up with Steinberg or perhaps even create their own hardware protection system.

Posted on Mon, Dec 12 2016 16:34
by PauloRego
Joined on Sat, May 14 2016, Posts 49

This really worries me - all the stories I read about people having problems with their keys. 

Symphonic Cube Standard, Appassionata Strings I Standard, Fanfare Trumpets Full, Epic Orchestra, Vienna Instruments Pro 2, Vienna Ensemble Pro 6, Vienna Suite, MIRx Teldex Scoring Stage, The Sage Gateshead, Konzerthaus Grosser Saal & Konzerthaus Mozartsaal

Posted on Wed, Dec 14 2016 19:15
by Piotr Katzpersky
Joined on Mon, May 11 2015, Polska, Posts 30

I never posted here (even though I read the forums), but few things you wrote bugs me. This one sentence in general.

"When I first realised that the keys "expire" after 2 years, I started buying 2 new keys every 2 years, just in case."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2 years guarantee means only that, that if the key brakes during that time, it is basically replaced for a new one for free (with all the licenses). After that time I have to pay for replacing it (ie pay for new one), but without any additional costs when it comes to license transfer from broken one (taking that I have the key and all licenses registered). Am I right?

"A suggestion would be for a regular check of each key by the eLicenser software. If the check showed that the key was reported stolen or lost, the licences on the key would be disabled or deleted."

Simple and really good solution - stole? Lost? Exterminate, exterminate ;)

And yes, I think that hardware dongles are retro in a bad way. Pirates probably still use VSL from kontakt times and they don't care. Or just pirate things that are easier to pirate. I'm curious though how hardware dongles impact sales, how many people would buy VSL if not that thing? For example EW decided to drop the iLok and allow soft licenses. How much more money they did with that move?

Anyway, hardware dongle is the only problem with VSL. But - and I know that - it's a big blocker for many people. Such as iLok. Or requirement of full Kontakt ;) 

Posted on Thu, Dec 15 2016 16:42
by musos
Joined on Sun, Dec 08 2002, Johannesburg, South Africa, Posts 912

Originally Posted by: Piotr Katzpersky Go to Quoted Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2 years guarantee means only that, that if the key brakes during that time, it is basically replaced for a new one for free (with all the licenses). After that time I have to pay for replacing it (ie pay for new one), but without any additional costs when it comes to license transfer from broken one (taking that I have the key and all licenses registered). Am I right?

Not quite right. Look at this thread:
http://tinyurl.com/zqaglqz

Regarding lost or stolen keys, VSL says:

Basically every user is responsible for his keys and licenses himself, we're not obliged to replace any lost or stolen licenses or keys at all, like e.g. lost or stolen jewelry wouldn't be replaced unless it's insured.
I'm afraid this means that you will have to purchase new licenses if your key doesn't show up again.

A user says:

- If your Vienna Key is broken without the warranty, you need to pay around 40 Euros (can't remember the exact figure) for each license you have, but not for the product price.

- If your Vienna Key is lost, you might get a small discount on your owned products. But yeah, you'll have to buy it again.

 

Vienna Key warranty lasts for 2 years, so you'll need to buy and transfer your licenses to the new one before it goes off. 

Here's another thread:
http://tinyurl.com/zqaglqz

Paul from VSL says:

In case a ViennaKey is damaged, users have to send it to our office in Vienna (American users: to the office of our distributor ILIO based in California) to enable us to take a look at the kind of the damage. If the damage on the ViennaKey shows signs of external force, he will of course have to pay for the new ViennaKey, and a handling fee for the new licenses (EUR 20 per contained license, minimum fee EUR 30). If a ViennaKey is registered to a user account, it's a lot easier for us to find out which licenses were stored on the Key.

If the ViennaKey breaks within the warranty period (two years) without extraneous cause, the user gets a new ViennaKey and the new license free of charge if he can verify the warranty period by sending us the invoice of the purchase of the ViennaKey or other eLicenser USB Key. That's why we recommend to purchase a new key every two years and to keep the invoice at a safe place.

So, that's why I buy new keys every 2 years...

Posted on Thu, Dec 15 2016 21:26
by Piotr Katzpersky
Joined on Mon, May 11 2015, Polska, Posts 30

Now I'm angry at myself that I didn't read all those elicenser mumbo jumbo thoroughly before commiting to VSL. For now I've got 4 licenses. I planed to add 5th (and 6th) in a not far future. My dongle is almost 2 years old now. So if that dongle will brake or just stop working then I have to pay again for licenses that I already bought 20 euros each? So now it would be 80 euros + new dongle just to have right for using what I legaly bought? The dongle isn't a car. Dongle is a key to a car. Car is in a garage. On my hard drive. Library itself is a car. It's useless without key, true, but noone in world would say that I have to pay 10% of car value cause I broke key :/

Basically we can sum it up to: pay 20 euros for new dongle every two years or live in fear, while fear actually grows with your commitment to the developer - more licenses, more money to spend if something goes south. Cool. How actually I'm encoraged here to use legal software? Arrrrrrrgh (the old, pirate proverb).

ps. Sorry for emotional tone, but I was almost sure that it doesn't work that way. I thought: it can't work that way. Guess it can :(

ps2. And what if dongle doesn't show signs of external force? Does this make difference in handling license transfer?

Posted on Thu, Dec 15 2016 22:40
by musos
Joined on Sun, Dec 08 2002, Johannesburg, South Africa, Posts 912

You're angry about 4 licences - how would you feel about 50 licences? 

We're all quite angry, frustrated and emotional about this issue.

We can only hope that VSL + Steinberg + eLicenser come up with a better solution, or that VSL comes up with a better licensing scheme that doesn't require users to be victims of this mess.

Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2016 06:51
by tek0010
Joined on Wed, Jun 17 2015, Posts 50

Originally Posted by: musos Go to Quoted Post

We're all quite angry, frustrated and emotional about this issue.

I'm not.

Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2016 11:22
by steff3
Joined on Thu, Nov 13 2003, Posts 268

Well, dongle s*****! And with the e-licenser there is a lot that is questionable IMHO (USB, low manufacturing quality (iLok 3 looks much more trust worthier), and the owner of e-licenser is also not a reference for rocket proof and hassle / bug free software) 

On the other hand - I also want to get paid for my work and i want my work to be considered valuable and not given away for free or copied without agreement.

However, it would be great if in the age of information processing, Internet, artificial intelligence, IoT etc. outdated concepts with hardware on not well performing software could  be replaced by something more sensitive to the fact that the costumers payed quite some money and want to have an acceptable user experience and not being treated like potential criminals.

There is hope that a technically skilled enterprise like VSL might also advance in this domain to more modern concepts (which include good UX which their software products - leaving out the protection - offer).

Just my thoughts.

 

best

Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2016 12:15
by musos
Joined on Sun, Dec 08 2002, Johannesburg, South Africa, Posts 912

Originally Posted by: tek0010 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: musos Go to Quoted Post

We're all quite angry, frustrated and emotional about this issue.

I'm not.

My apologies.
I should have said: Many people here (excluding tek0010 and perhaps a few others) are angry, frustrated......

Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2016 15:36
by tek0010
Joined on Wed, Jun 17 2015, Posts 50

Originally Posted by: musos Go to Quoted Post
My apologies.

I should have said: Many people here (excluding tek0010 and perhaps a few others) are angry, frustrated......

Thanks. If you're any kind of "victim", you're a voluntary victim, since VSL didn't make you buy the products in the first place, and VSL isn't preventing you from selling them. That's all the time I have for voluntary "victims".

Posted on Fri, Dec 16 2016 16:33
by Piotr Katzpersky
Joined on Mon, May 11 2015, Polska, Posts 30
Sell it and never come back? Sounds like brilliant tip, very pro customer ;-)

But maybe VSL will reconsider their approach to dongles and will at least allow to move licenses to HD. That creepy e-Cerberus actually can be intimidating and to be honest, if not for trysound I would never decide to go through him. Not to mention the fact, that world doesn't needy any more spare electronic devices.
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