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VSL LOST KEY POLICY
Last post Thu, Oct 18 2018 by stefan_telser, 112 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Jan 13 2017 19:18
by Tomi Ervi
Joined on Wed, Jun 02 2010, Posts 5

IF YOU LOOSE YOUR E-LICENSER (the 1-inch piece of clear plastic) you will loose everything you ever bought from VSL. 

- They do not warn you in any way about this at the page dedicated for e-licencer!
https://vsl.co.at/en/Instruments/ViennaKey (WHY NOT?)

- It does not help that you register all software, including the licenser itself

- you will NOT be able to retrieve your licenses to a new key, VSL does not let you

- if you think you buy a car and it comes with a key to drive it, you would buy a new key if you loose it. 
With VSL, if you loose the key you have to buy the car again with a new key

- VSL uses wording where the key becomes the product you buy, not the car. 

I hope someone from VSL will confirm this to be true. Shame on them to use such method to protect their software where the client has their investment tied up on a small piece of cheap plastic, people do loose them and you can be the next so be aware. 

Posted on Fri, Jan 13 2017 20:50
by michi
Joined on Sun, Dec 22 2002, vienna, Posts 503
We'd prefer to live in a world without product piracy. But as long this isn't the case, we all have to deal with copy protection. We're providing our customers with a safe system, it hasn't been cracked up to now and works offline as well. So, if a key get's lost, everybody who finds this key has unrestricted acces to the licenses. Free replacement licenses would harm our company, we simply can't afford such a solution. We believe, taking care of the key is nothing but self-responsibility. You won't expect any kind of warning if you put 1.000 bucks into your wallet. It's common sense that you won't get the money back if you loose it. To meet uninsured customers half way in lost key matters, we're offering 50% discount for the replacement licenses and a free 48 hours all application license as first, quick help.

Regards, Michael Hula
VSL Support
Posted on Sat, Jan 14 2017 00:18
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 468
Moin,

zwischenzeitlich hat Steinberg die Firma aber übernommen und ist offen für alle Änderungen, die User glücklicher machen. Kann doch nicht sein, dass sich da nichts machen lässt! Abhilfe könnte ein Webtool schaffen ... Außerdem, wie wahrscheinlich ist es denn, wenn ich einen Key finden würde, dass ich dann auch an die Samples komme?

Zum Thema Webtool ... Was ist eigentlich aus dem Webtool geworden, dass Ihr vor einiger Zeit machen wolltet? Ihr hattet sogar eine Stelle dafür ausgeschrieben.

Es gibt immer so vieles, was VSL sich vornimmt ... aber irgendwie werft Ihr die (zum Teil sehr vielversprechenden) Pläne über Bord (bringt aber Anderes, das erfreut;)

Herb hatte z.B. vor Jahren mal eine große Überarbeitung der vorhandenen Packages als "Zweite Ausbaustufe" angekündigt. Bislang leider nie passiert. Das Interview hierzu findet man sogar noch im Web.

Ich wünschte mir, Ihr würdet eine offenere Politik wie Urs Heckmann, Steinberg und Co. kommunizieren. Urs sagt zwar auch nur wage wann neue Produkte released werden. Aber die Roadmap von denen kennt man (mindestens auf 12-Monats-Basis). Meist geben die User dann auch hilfreichen Input. So hätte ich mir bei der Traverse Flute unbedingt gesampletes Vibrato gewünscht. Das künstliche klingt ... naja eben unecht, wenn man sich Performances z.B. auf YT anhört. Egal, ich schweife ab ...
—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Sat, Jan 14 2017 02:40
by Tomi Ervi
Joined on Wed, Jun 02 2010, Posts 5

Smarter, better ideas on this anyone ?
All VSL clients understand piracy, we create music that is the most pirated item in the world.  

MIchael from VSLsays it here clearly: VSL clients will loose their entire investment to their products the second their key is damaged or lost ! 

About VSL/Michaels examble: If you invest money to buy  an expensive car, you don't automatically assume that you need to buy a new car if you loose or damage the key. The seller should absolutely state clearly every step of the way that this is their policy, why would they not...? Because it does not make any sence. 
Especially, when the key itself is a 1-inch piece of cheap plastic sticking out of a computer.

IDEAS:

- VSL should state their policy clearly every step of the way and let their customers decide if this makes sence 
- state and remind this clearly upon buying, registering and updating
- use a licence that can be traced and changed over the internet
- use a license that is not a cheap, small piece of plastic (a fist size metal cube?)
- do not use a method where you assume and punish all clients as they were pirates

VSL, you know software, we are not all pirates and support your efforts, but this is not smart or correct. Step one, don't defend it, improve or change it. I know you can. I lost my investment and I am not a pirate. 

Posted on Sat, Jan 14 2017 06:02
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 468
This topic has already been discussed here. No official solution yet. An own VSL-Webtool with access,for every user could be a solution. (only for online-use. but a good solution for the ones who have lost the key) VSL need a way to make pressure on Steinberg. Without an own solution like a Webtool they cannot do that. In a perfect world they would take a few drinks with Steinberg-Responsibles at a NAMM-evening ... but we do not live an a perfect world. Pressure, pressure, pressure. Steinberg do not want to lose their supporters either.
—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Sat, Jan 14 2017 13:55
by Tomi Ervi
Joined on Wed, Jun 02 2010, Posts 5

This is a VSL policy, not the policy of Steinberg. I would like to hear how VSL is going on about changing this and when. Right now, they are just telling us that they treat us all as pirates when accidents/incidents happen.

Everybody is using internet who works with VSL, so online solution would be the way to go and it already exists. VSL is capable of making software solutions, so why not solve this in a way that makes sence. 

Posted on Sun, Jan 15 2017 01:37
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1494

Originally Posted by: Tomi Ervi Go to Quoted Post

Everybody is using internet who works with VSL...

Not me.  And I would much prefer it that way

No, I'm against any sort of web based validation or revalidation of licenses.  Having to rearrange my studio to accomodate a wifi signal would be a real pain in the $crotum sack for me  Not happening.

Tomi,

Do a forum search on this lost/broken Vienna key matter and you will find that nearly all of these "solutions" have been suggested in one form or another.  In fact, I think I could earn a University PHD in figuring out exactly how many "solutions" have been suggested to altar VSL's copy protection.

(******** I'm not going to bother to respond to any replies on this because it woulld require me to copy and paste my responses from the umteen thousand previous threads generated regarding this matter.) 

Happy New Year!


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sun, Jan 15 2017 02:41
by Nitrox 32
Joined on Sun, Mar 15 2009, USA, Posts 139

MIchael Hula, am I to understand that VSL is capable of making such incredible software that they are not able to implement any of the sugested solutions instead of assuming that anyone who lost their key is a pirate? 

Posted on Sun, Jan 15 2017 08:21
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 468
No one said that one model should replace the other model. The best of both worlds.
The offline solution keeps the elicenser, but in addition to that a WEB-solution was great. Why not?

A little bit (bad) science-fiction-thinking for a reason why the elicenser-Model is important:
Just imagine VSL should be insolvent or close their doors one day. With an "only-online-solution" which of course needs constant Human external support, we would completely be lost in space.

(But if Steinberg AND VSL close their doors both ... we are totally fu**ed ;)

—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Sun, Jan 15 2017 08:51
by michi
Joined on Sun, Dec 22 2002, vienna, Posts 503
Nitrox, I think you're mixing up two things which aren't basicly connected. We wouldn't grant a discounted replacement license to product pirates, so our effort to help is obvious. I'm aware that a lost key is a difficult situation for a customer, but you can't blame the copy protection system itself in such a case.

Best, Michael
Posted on Tue, Jan 17 2017 07:43
by Tomi Ervi
Joined on Wed, Jun 02 2010, Posts 5

VSL users are online to update their software anyway, so online solution seems obvious to me.

Competitors, fellow software manufacturers have solved this license issue in multiple ways. 
Monthly an yearly subscriptions seem to be the trend with many software developers to gain more users/money = good for all. 

VSL should be capable of providing a new "key" to customers who bought their "car", 
it would be the decent, obvious, right thing to do. 

Posted on Tue, Jan 17 2017 18:07
by Tomi Ervi
Joined on Wed, Jun 02 2010, Posts 5

Since VSL is aware of this potential for "difficult situation for customers" that e-licenser and VSL policy presents, 
why not to inform clients clearly about what it means to loose/damage the e-licenser ?

As a start, no mention here on the VSL "e-licencer" page:
https://vsl.co.at/en/Instruments/ViennaKey

How about: "this e-licencer holds all the products you buy and if it is lost/damaged you will loose your investment with us"... OK, I admit it does not sound so good...

Posted on Wed, Feb 22 2017 18:27
by djw
Joined on Thu, Jun 25 2015, Posts 36

Originally Posted by: michi Go to Quoted Post
We'd prefer to live in a world without product piracy. But as long this isn't the case, we all have to deal with copy protection. We're providing our customers with a safe system, it hasn't been cracked up to now and works offline as well. So, if a key get's lost, everybody who finds this key has unrestricted acces to the licenses. Free replacement licenses would harm our company, we simply can't afford such a solution. We believe, taking care of the key is nothing but self-responsibility. You won't expect any kind of warning if you put 1.000 bucks into your wallet. It's common sense that you won't get the money back if you loose it. To meet uninsured customers half way in lost key matters, we're offering 50% discount for the replacement licenses and a free 48 hours all application license as first, quick help.

Regards, Michael Hula
VSL Support


The solution for me is sadly just not to purchase too much from VSL, so in case I lose the dongle the damage is not that devastating.

If you think I'm alone and you're not missing out on more sales because of this, then you should think about this more from a client's perspective.

Steinberg has a  Zero Downtime policy that has proven to work, and is still strict. Ignoring these advancements is not just bad for us customers, but also to your company's detriment.

Posted on Tue, Mar 28 2017 13:16
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 445

As ominiq, I will stop purchasing VSL products, until a more reasonable solution is found to protect the user. I can't feel confident to work with a tool that I will not be able to purchase again, in case the key breaks or gets lost or stolen. It's a very sad situation.

Paolo

Posted on Tue, Mar 28 2017 18:06
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 445

This is how Steinberg's Zero Downtime system works. A replacement for all the licenses stored in a registered key is available for free, and in a very short time. In addition, you just need a replacement key to continue working as soon as you have it.

This is compliant with the principle that a customer owns the rights to use the software, not the protection key. And it just seems like good commercial practice, where a customer in troubles is not considered as a potential thieve. I doubt Steinberg is increasing piracy with this system.

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/206532304

Paolo

Posted on Fri, Mar 31 2017 01:12
by S4410
Joined on Mon, Apr 28 2014, Posts 7

Wow,i wasn't aware of this lost key policy,i have all my licenses in a Steinberg elicenser key. Now i read that in order to be safe i need to buy a new dongle every two years? Something breaks and i have to pay for a registered product half the price AGAIN? That's pretty discouraging , makes me want to avoid purchasing VSL's fine products...There must be a better method,why don't you adopt Steinberg's Zero Downtime system?

Posted on Sat, Apr 01 2017 01:08
by antcarrier
Joined on Fri, Sep 24 2010, Sunshine Coast, Australia, Posts 60
I'm I big fan of VSL and own a lot of their products. That said, I always feel a bit apprehensive about buying new VSL products since becoming aware of this issue. VSL has the worst licensing policy of any software company I have ever dealt with. I've guarded my keys with my life, but if anything did ever happen to them and I had to deal with this policy, I think I'd feel a bit insulted as a long term VSL customer, especially considering the significant financial investment required to buy the library over the years. I understand that piracy needs to be prevented, but the VSL license policy just seems to be punishing the hard working, honest musos that pay for their tools.
Posted on Sat, Apr 01 2017 03:21
by RLD
Joined on Thu, Jan 26 2017, Posts 68

deleted by user

Posted on Sat, Apr 01 2017 03:24
by RLD
Joined on Thu, Jan 26 2017, Posts 68

Originally Posted by: antcarrier Go to Quoted Post
I'm I big fan of VSL and own a lot of their products. That said, I always feel a bit apprehensive about buying new VSL products since becoming aware of this issue. VSL has the worst licensing policy of any software company I have ever dealt with. I've guarded my keys with my life, but if anything did ever happen to them and I had to deal with this policy, I think I'd feel a bit insulted as a long term VSL customer, especially considering the significant financial investment required to buy the library over the years. I understand that piracy needs to be prevented, but the VSL license policy just seems to be punishing the hard working, honest musos that pay for their tools.

+1

Posted on Fri, Apr 07 2017 08:37
by JamesPDX
Joined on Fri, May 01 2015, USA, Posts 48

+2

James Long
PC & Mac, Windows 10 and Mojave
Pro Tools 2019.x
VEP 7.x
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