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Firewire RAID ? Good to stream ?
Last post Tue, Jan 25 2005 by jbm, 8 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Jan 17 2005 22:19
by zgogor
Joined on Tue, Apr 22 2003, World, Posts 38
Hi all,
I'm interested in the Miglia DualDisk system :

Any users here ?

Don't you think it is a good idea for a big SoundLibrary and streaming ?

Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2005 18:29
by zgogor
Joined on Tue, Apr 22 2003, World, Posts 38
reply to myself :

Due to the low end users products in FW800 rather go to a SCSI Monocanal Raid system...
Posted on Tue, Jan 18 2005 20:19
by stupid8track
Joined on Thu, Mar 13 2003, Posts 230

i've personally never found RAIDs to be of any use with Logic - either for audio track playback or for streaming samples. i certainly haven't tested a hardware firewire RAID, but i have tested other RAIDs (software scsi, hardware ATA, software firewire) and the results have always been the same - the RAID always performed at almost the same level as any single drive which makes up the RAID.

thus, i would expect that the firewire RAID you are considering will behave similarly to a single firewire drive.

i could be wrong because i haven't tested that unit, but if you decide to try the firewire RAID, make sure you can return it if it doesn't improve performance.

hope that helps and good luck
Posted on Wed, Jan 19 2005 14:48
by zgogor
Joined on Tue, Apr 22 2003, World, Posts 38
thx Stupid,
my problem is more in term of longevity !

FW is not very used by PRO, they prefere the SCSI device because of the powerfull performances and because of the longevity.

It is very annoying to have a FW hardDisk who crash ! and it is true that my experience is , 1 Crash every 5/7 months... ( my last one was 1 week ago ).
I think it is not manageable ...
FW seems to be very interesting in terms of money because it is very cheap compare to big SCSI system, but, hey, I 've lost 3 days to re-install sounds this week ! ( I've lost all the DAT from SpectraSonics and PlugSounds and more ...).

So ,I will go for a big scsi solution based on a HUGE system ...
Posted on Wed, Jan 19 2005 16:09
by stupid8track
Joined on Thu, Mar 13 2003, Posts 230

ah, yes, i get it. i too have lost many more firewire drives than any other kind (4 to date). knock on wood, i've never lost a scsi drive to date (owned 30+). for data security, i find firewire to be really poor. i too had to go through the whole 'VSL reinstall' when 2 firewire drives died. so now i've got the full VSL installed on 3 seperate firewire drives - 1 attached to my system, 2 as backup.

if by HUGE system, you mean a RAID from hugesystems.com - i own one of their older RAIDs. AFAIK, they are built with ATA drives (maybe SATA - haven't checked in a while) not scsi. and mine (dual media vault 1800) only streams at the same level as a single ATA drive.

personally, i think you'd probably be better served in cost/benefit by going with 3 firewire drives (1 for use, 2 for backup). the odds of all 3 drives failing at once is remote - but they will be much cheaper and perform virtually the same, IME.

that said, if you get a dual HUGE system, just leave the two halves of it as 'separate' drives and you should be good for security (especially if you get one with drives you can swap out - no good if you have to send them the unit if a drive fails because then your data is 'lost' for that period of time, too). no point RAIDing the two sides together because it won't improve performance.

also consider a company called RAID Incorporated (raidinc.com) - i've had very good luck with them with scsi raids. i know they also make a new SATA raid, though i have no idea what the price point is.

or you could get the MacGurus (macgurus.com) to build you a 2-4 drive scsi mini-tower and you could install the data across all four drives (or RAID them) and get the best performance and stability available for EXS. i'd still recommend firewire as backup, understanding that the 'backup' will most likely fail first. Smile

hope that helps and best of luck with it
Posted on Fri, Jan 21 2005 21:07
by zgogor
Joined on Tue, Apr 22 2003, World, Posts 38
thx for those precious information Smile

I will try a HUGE.com solution first, I think we can stream more voices than a FW HD ( even a Fw800)...
imagine a line at 120/150 mo/s ... it should be around 400/600 voices ...

Posted on Fri, Jan 21 2005 22:58
by stupid8track
Joined on Thu, Mar 13 2003, Posts 230

actually, i don't think you'll see any improvement in voice count (before dropped data) using a HUGE RAID vs. using a firewire 400 drive because they use the same drive - a 7200 rpm ATA drive.

yes, the HUGE RAID will have 10 of them. but i've never found multiple drives (either in RAID or separate) to improve voice count.

i've specifically tested our HUGE RAID for voice count and it performed the same as a single one of our firewire 400 drives (at least the ones with the Oxford 911 chipset). both dropped data at right about the same time, even though the single firewire drive benchmarks at around 32 MB/sec transfer rate and the HUGE RAID at over 200 MB/sec.

if you want a HUGE RAID for storage and backup and redundancy - fine. if you want it for video work - great.

but if you are buying it hoping for improved VSL voice count performance - be careful. make sure you can return it if performance doesn't improve - because i have a strong feeling it might not.

it is a lot of money to spend to end up with the same performance as a firewire drive.

hope this helps
Posted on Tue, Jan 25 2005 03:44
by jbm
Joined on Fri, Jan 16 2004, Posts 1159
Keep in mind that when you say "FW HD", you're actually saying, IDE drive in a FW case. So, any lack of durability is that of IDE, not FW. Also, if you happen to be buying LaCie FW drives, then you're usually actually *getting* Maxtor drives in those cases, which are cheap crap. They die. That's that.

If you get a good case (one with a warranty that isn't voided as soon as you open it to check what kind of drive it contains), and buy Seagate drives, I doubt your problem will continue. The Mac shop I work at sells and services machines for the audio and videa industry in Vancouver, and we always sell Seagate in our FW cases. VERY few come back dead. And apparently all of Seagate's recent 8 MB cache Barracudas now carry a 5 year warranty. So I think they're pretty confident in the quality of the mechanisms.

Also remember that hot-plugging FW on any G4 tower earlier than a G4 933 could result in a fried FW controller -- in either the tower or the case. It's a hardware bug that Apple never acknowledged, but quietly fixed with the 933 (and up).


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