I'd never noticed the ""Force output channels" setting in MIR plugin until reading this thread:

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=42930&=#post258031

Has it always been an option, or was it added during an update? More importantly, where can I find documentation about this setting? I have searched the MIR Pro Plug-In manual, Rev 1.4, but all I find is something on page 10, which is either an error in the documentation, or I'm just not understanding what it means. Page 10 says, 

"As you see, the MIR Control UI contains just a subset of the Preferences from standard MIR Pro / VE Pro. Three

additional settings were added, though:"

"1 is for automatically focusing on the MIR Icon on stage when its corresponding plug-in GUI is opened in the host application."

"2 will shut down the Control UI / Main Window when there is no MIR Pro Plug-In in the active project/song/ session of your hosting DAW."

"3 determines the convolution latency of all MIR Pro Plug-Ins."

#3 doesn't seem to have anything to do with "Force output cannels", so is there another place in the documentation explaining "Force output channels"?

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Seems that this has been never added to the manual. That's just a "technical" Preference for obscure situations where certain DAWs can't determine the channel width of a plug-in by themselves. If you haven't needed it up to now, you won't need it in the future either (most likely). :-)

Thanks. What do you mean by "channel width"?

I possibly have needed this, hence my asking about it. Two needs I have are (1) getting separate dry and wet output from MIR in my DAW, and (2) getting individual microphone-capsules to output to separate tracks in my DAW.

I don't have VE Pro.

For (1), I've not been able to do this with MIR Plug-In, but I have been able to do it by using MIR inside VE Regular.

For (2), I've found no solution. With the "Force output channels" setting, can I finally get individual microphone capsules onto separate tracks in my DAW (Reaper or Cubase)?

Thanks for speaking English. If I had to do this in German, it would not go well.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

... the number of individual channels within an audio stream, i.e. one for Mono, two for Stereo, four for Quadro or Ambisonics, six for 5.1-surround, and so on.

With the "Force output channels" setting, can I get individual microphone capsules onto separate tracks in my DAW (Reaper or Cubase)?

I am (I think) talking about Output Format. The only Output Format I ever have been able to achieve is basic 2-channel -- Left and Right. I've spent some hours reading docs and trying to get a more complex Output Format, but without success, so I had assumed that feature is available only through VE Pro (which I don't have).

But now, after learning of "Force output channels", I'm hoping it is actually possible for me to get an Output Format more complex than stereo.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

I'm not sure what you mean by "individual microphone capsules".

I'm talking about the things I add with the "ADD CAPSULE" button, and which I delete with the "DELETE CAPSULE" button.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Are we really talking about the Main and Secondary Microphones in MIR, or the so-called MIR Icon that's used to represent a signal source on a stage ...? :-/

Neither. We are talking about the things I add with the "ADD CAPSULE" button, and which I delete with the "DELETE CAPSULE" button.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

MIR Pro's output will always depend on the chosen Output Format. This can be set up in the Output Format Editor window.

On my system, the Output Format Editor window doesn't allow me to surpass a channel-width of 2.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

If you need a 5.1 (or 7.1 or Quadro) output format from MIR Pro,

I shouldn't need a 5.1 (or 7.1 or Quadro) output format from MIR Pro, since I'm producing for stereo, not surround; but now I see I have to trick MIR into thinking I'm producing for 5.1 (or 7.1 or Quadro) if I want more than 2 output channels from MIR.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

In any case - the "force output channels" preference isn't a tool for daily work, but a purely technical option to circumvent restrictions imposed by certain DAWs.

I don't want to use it for daily work. I just want to use it as a technical option to circumvent restrictions imposed by certain DAWs. I'll wait for it to be documented.

PS: The Matrix is shown on p. 24 of MIR Pro's Manual. Just be aware that you have to type-in values - you can't just click'n'drag like you would expect in case of other parameter entry fields of MIR Pro.

Wait a minute - in your previous message you wrote that you work in stereo only, but now you want to open three or five outputs ...? I can't follow your train of thoughts. 8-/

So let me give it another try, please.

If you want to use more than two virtual microphone capsules in a stereo setup, the Output Matrix will look similar to the screenshot of example 1.

If you want to use individual outputs for those capsules, you will need to use MIR Pro in a surround environment. The Output Matrix will have to look similar to the screenshot of example 2.

... does this help ...?

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Example2-surround.jpg (744kb) downloaded 12 time(s).

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Originally Posted by: Dietz

If you want to use individual outputs for those capsules, you will need to use MIR Pro in a surround environment. The Output Matrix will have to look similar to the screenshot of example 2.

... does this help ...?

The screenshot of example 2 shows what I have been trying to accomplish, but I'm unable to accomplish. No matter where I try moving my mouse and clicking the buttons, no matter what keys on my keyboard I press, my copy of MIR does not look like the jpg in your example 2.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Wait a minute - in your previous message you wrote that you work in stereo only, but now you want to open three or five outputs ...? I can't follow your train of thoughts. 8-/

I didn't say I work only in stereo; I said I produce for stereo:

"I'm producing for stereo, not surround".

What comes out of my DAW is stereo. That is different from what comes into my DAW.

Imagine someone using a real mid/side microphone. The microphone outputs one mid-channel, and one side-channel. That enters the DAW as one mid-channel and one side-channel. But that is not what the final listeners hears, because it's not what eventually comes out of the DAW. In the DAW, you mix the mid/side channels with your faders, and then you transform the mid/side system into a Left/Right system, and then you render that Left/Right system to a WAV file, and when the person at the end listens to your music, he doesn't hear Mid coming out of one speaker and Side coming out of the other speaker. He hears Left/Right stereo, because you used your DAW correctly to process the information from the mid/side microphone.

This is but one of many examples how a DAW can output something different from what enters it.

And people have been mixing classical music like that since the 50's. It is a very normal thing, to bring lots of inputs input in a DAW or mixing console, then mix them down to stereo, and then output a final stereo product.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

You should download Example 1, too, to see exactly what you trying to teach me.

I downloaded it, and but it's the opposite of what I'm talking about. It shows 2 channels going into the DAW, while I'm writing a long thread about more than 2 channels going into the DAW.

I guess you are having some fun here, telling me everything except how to get MIR to send more than 2 channels to my DAW. I'll leave you to that; goodbye.

Originally Posted by: tek0010

[...] I guess you are having some fun here, [...]

Errrrrr .... do you really believe that I sat down a quarter past midnight to create two screenshots especially for you - just to make _fun_ of you ...?