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  • Tchaikovsky Visits Synchron Stage

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    Here is my performance of the Tchaikovsky Swan Lake Scene 29 Finale, complete, using all VSL instruments and MIR Pro Synchron Stage.

    Tchaikovsky Swan Lake Finale

    Instrumentation is all full libraries with the exception of the harp which is standard library. Included are Piccolo, Flute 1, Flute 2, Oboe 1, Oboe 2, Clarinet 1, Clarinet 2, Bassoon 1, Bassoon 2, Vienna Horn, Triple Horn, two of the Dim Brass Horns, Bb Trumpet, C trumpet, Cornet, Dim Brass Trumpet, Trombone, Dim Brass Trombone, Bass Trombone, Tuba, Timpani, Piatti, Bass Drum, Snare Drum, Tamtam, Harp, Orchestral Strings, plus all of the solo strings as string section First Chairs. Wow, that was a lot of work just typing it in.

    I used the MIR Pro Synchron Stage, all defualt settings, except Oboe 1 on the "siler" setting. I also used MIRacle with the Teledex length enhancement setting. No EQ except a low cut filter at 75khz on all bass instruments and on the master bus to prevent what I call the "booming" that seems to build up otherwise.

    I used my own interpretation of tempos and ritornella to suit myself. However, I was trying to achieve a natural instrument balance. Did I succeed? What do you think of the oboe solo?

    All comments are welcome and appreciated, even negative ones, especially regarding my two questions.


  • Wow Paul - you're not afraid to get negative comments!  I'm impressed.  

    Sounds very good to me, and very expressive.  Though you are dealing with the most notorious situation in sampling, big-time, with this piece - the screaming high violins going tinny.  It is almost impossible to get rid of when violins are both fortissimo and extremely high.  Don't ask me how - Dietz probably knows.  The only other negative might be I noticed too long release tails in the oboe, maybe a few other instruments.  That is another "SAMPLED" giveaway.  I have become nervous about that in my own pieces, so am paranoid about them - that is probably why I noticed!  


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    @William said:

    Wow Paul - you're not afraid to get negative comments!  I'm impressed.  

    Sounds very good to me, and very expressive.  Though you are dealing with the most notorious situation in sampling, big-time, with this piece - the screaming high violins going tinny.  It is almost impossible to get rid of when violins are both fortissimo and extremely high.  Don't ask me how - Dietz probably knows.  The only other negative might be I noticed too long release tails in the oboe, maybe a few other instruments.  That is another "SAMPLED" giveaway.  I have become nervous about that in my own pieces, so am paranoid about them - that is probably why I noticed!  

    Thank you William for listenimng and taking the time to comment!

    Yes I knew that doing this piece was goimng to be stretching the limits of what even VSL sampled instruments could do, and that is one reason why I wanted to try it. I want to learn and improve my midi performance skills. and the only way to do that is to try difficult things.

    You are absolutely correct about the oboe. I had a lot of trouble with the oboe solo and I pushed up the realease tail from the normal 64 up to about 82 during the solo only to try to get a more convincing sound. Thanks for pointing out that I pushed it too far. I also tried different settings in MIR Pro for the oboe, and ended up with the "silver" setting but I am still not entirely happy witht the result. In general I find the VSL oboe 1 much more challenging than any of the other VSL woodwinds. Other than the oboe, all of the release setting were left at the default 63.

    One thing that bothers me is that as I work on a midi performance I become less and less able to listen critically after working on something for many hours. If I put it aside for a few days and come back to it, then I get a fresh listen, but that is a slow way to work.

    If anything else specific occurs to you, please do not hesitate to mention it. I want to learn!


  • Hi Paul,

    This is quite an accomplishment. You took a risk to put such a well known piece in samples. But as a whole you've managed to bring a very decent performance. However, such a pile of instruments is already difficult to keep clear and transparent and then you've covered it with a (to my taste) rather heavy amount of reverb. That way, many lovely details get lost in the enormous sound wall. But as you know I'm not so fond of long tails and deep reverbs. That's probably the reason why I experience your majestic work as 'heavy'.

    The oboe is another matter. It has a pretty prominent function in the Swan Lake. Therefore I would release it from its normal orchestral position and bring it a little to the front, preferably somewhat to the right (to let it escape from the dominant violins in the EQ range). I'm sure the oboe would benefit from that and its sound would be clearer and easier to deal with if not pleasing enough.

    I do agree with William, but I'm not experienced enough to give any suggestions here. Working with VSL is still a hard job for me too. I hope that I will be able one day to use them without any stress as musicians play their instruments... (A dream years away...)

    Thanks for sharing, we can all learn from it!

    Max


  • Hi Max,

    Thanks for your really in-depth post. It is much appreciated by me. I have put in some additional work on this piece, but I am still not happy with the result. The oboe solo is of course one source of my frustration. I have even considered (gasp) purchasing another oboe sample instrument, perhaps the 8dio oboe. But I have not done so as of yet. I really feel incompetent with getting a good mix with all VSL instruments, so I am a bit nervouse about mixing VSL and other developers libraries. I might try all or part of the earlier scene (Act 2 I think) when this theme is first introduced by the solo oboe. The oboe solo in that earlier scene is in a higher key, which should help the oboe to better project.

    I do want to come back to this when my skills improve and see if I can do better. My biggest goal was to see if I could balance and mix a long passage of full orchestral tutti at fortissimo (and in this case fortississimo fff) and I think I would give myself a grade of D (not a F or D-, but certainly no higher than a D). I was sort of hoping that someone on this forum had been able to say, "Aha to get a good mix and balance in a similar situation you need to do x, then y, then z."  But sadly that has not happened. 

    But I will not give up. Cheers,

    Paul T. McGraw


  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on