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Helpful info about IP address setup
Last post Fri, Feb 14 2020 by composerguy78, 19 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Aug 10 2017 23:15
by knobworld
Joined on Tue, Dec 14 2010, Posts 3

Hi All-

A friend shared this detailed best practices info for setting up IP addresses on a slave. It references MACs, but I think the general advice about setting up a private LAN just for VEP are useful in both worlds.

In Mac world the set up he describes takes place in system preferences / network. In my setup I use wi-fi for internet connections on both master and slave computers, and the VEP connection is a cat 6 cable from the laptop (via a Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapter) to the slave computer.

Hope this is helpful:

 


I always set static IPs on all machines involved in the VEP network. 
 
The best practice for a Mac Pro that has two ethernet ports is to connect one port to your house network that is internet connected, and connect the other port to a separate, closed gigabit ethernet switch that only connects to other VEP machines and does not connect to the internet.
 
You can use any setting that works (Manual, DHCP, etc.) for the internet connected port. It doesn’t matter.
 
Set the VEP port to a static IP using a different subnet. In other words, if your internet router is using the 192.168.1.x subnet, put the VEP network on something else — 192.168.25.x, for example. Set each VEP computer to a different IP address on the private VEP subnet (i.e. Computer1: 192.168.25.2, Computer2: 192.168.25.3, Computer3: 192.168.25.4, and so on). The useable numbers for the fourth octet, as it’s called, is any number from 2 to 254. Don’t use 0, 1 or 255. They are reserved. 
 
You don’t have to use the 192.168.x.x subnet. There are several subnets ranges reserved for the LAN (used for local communications within a private network) and are not allowed on the WAN. They are:
 
10.0.0.0 – 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0 – 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0 – 192.168.255.255
 
The 169.254.0.0 – 169.254.255.255 range is a special case which I don’t recommend using. I’ve seen people use this subnet for VEP, but I find it to be very unpredictable. It is used for link-local addresses between two hosts on a single link (direct, no routing) when no IP address(es) is(are) otherwise specified. You’ll see this “self-assigned” address when you lose internet connection, for example.
 
With the networking assignments in System Prefs for the VEP ethernet port, only 2 of the fields need to be filled: IP Address (manually specified) and Subnet Mask (which should be 255.255.255.0). There is no Routing, and there is no need for DNS. Those 2 fields are for traversing the internet and have no bearing on a local network.
 
The reason we do it this way is because VEP eats up a tremendous amount of bandwidth on a network, and mixing its packets with regular packets from internet connected computers can cause all kinds of deleterious effects — stalling, hangs, dropouts, packet resend requests, packet collisions, general slowness, buffering, etc. Putting the VEP machines on a private, closed switch prevents all of those effects and allow both the internet and the VEP networks to function at full efficiency without interfering with each other.
 
One thing to know: when configured this way, the slave VEP machines can’t go on the internet unless they also have a secondary connection( like WiFi or a 2nd ethernet port). Most of the time, this doesn’t matter because you only need to go online to do a few updates now and then. I particularly like this config with Windows computers because, since it’s not on the internet, there is no need for anti-virus which can slow the shit out of a machine.
 
Now what if you’re using a laptop as your main machine? In that case, you should use the ethernet port for VEP connected via a private, closed ethernet switch along with the other VEP machines, and use WiFi for internet. Don’t mix them. It just doesn’t work out in the long run.
 
You could do what I did, which is to buy the OWC Thunderbolt 2 Dock. That gives me an extra ethernet port that I use for VEP and I use a Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapter for the internet connection when I want fast internet. Usually I just use WiFi, though.
 
Hope this helps! Sorry it was so verbose, but this networking stuff is not as simple as people seem to think…
Posted on Thu, Sep 14 2017 01:31
by laurentmis
Joined on Sat, Apr 05 2008, mis, Posts 25

Hi thanks for the tips,

I am trying to slave a mac pro os 10.8.5 to a pc windows 10 running pro tools hd 12.I am using static ips 10.0.1.7 subnet 255.255.255.0 (PC) and 10.0.1.18 same subnet(MAC). Firewalls are off , no blue tooth, no wi fi and the 2 computers are conected to a switch with no router connected to it, the switch is suposed to connect a private network is it what you are saying ? On the second mac port i have the router connected to use internet cable should i disable it when i use vep pro ? Sorry to ask ,but i must admit that i have been trying to make this work stable for 2 weeks now. Unfortunatly sometimes i have some audio drop offs and it makes me nervous about using vep in a work context.

Best regards

Posted on Thu, Sep 14 2017 20:37
by knobworld
Joined on Tue, Dec 14 2010, Posts 3

Sounds like you are doing everything the way Greg suggests. I wouldn't think having something connected to the other Ethernet port on the Mac would cause problems, but I would also test it with that port unplugged.

Not PC literate so I can't offer any further suggestions.

Posted on Fri, Sep 15 2017 22:29
by laurentmis
Joined on Sat, Apr 05 2008, mis, Posts 25

Hi ,

I have done what you have suggested, which is unplugging the port and the connection seems to be stable at least for the last day and a half. I really think the internet is messing with my vep network and the problem is that my routter has a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 and this could be a problem. So i am staying away from the 192.168.25.2 ip now because the router is using 192.168.0.x ,even though the connection was working with this ip i prefer stay away and turn wifi on a later time. I am using a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0 on both computer to stay away from the router, hopefully this will help too. Anyways thank you very much for your post on ip's it's been really helpfull for me.

Best regards

Posted on Fri, Nov 24 2017 16:17
by composerguy78
Joined on Fri, Sep 14 2007, Los Angeles, Posts 77

I just wanted to say thank you so much for posting this knobworld! This is just what I have always been looking for. Great explanation and I got this working first time! 

Much appreciated!

Felix

Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 00:53
by ChristopherH
Joined on Tue, Aug 30 2016, Posts 3

Hey everyone! Does anyone have an idea why my instances aren't showing up in VEP 6? I can manually connect by typing in the IP and instance name, but it would be a lot easier if the instances showed up and I'm assuming there's a bigger problem at hand. 

I followed Knobworld's static IP instructions (Thank you by the way) and assigned my main Mac OS 10.12.6 (192.168.25.2 sub 255.255.0.0) and my slave Mac OS 10.13.2 (192.168.25.3 sub 255.255.0.0) 

I've tried it with wifi on and off. For some reason, if wifi is on my local VEP shows in the instances. If wifi is off, nothing will show. I'm connecting my macs via Thunderbolt 2, so I wasn't sure if that was part of the problem. And I double checked to router subnet (I think I read that it can't be the same as the bridge) and it is 255.255.255.0

I've tried it with multiple DAWs all with similar results. And this level of networking is all pretty foreign to me, so I apologize if I overlooked something simple, but I would love to hear any suggestions. 

Thanks! 

Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 02:07
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2664

You can try this :

Didable WIFI on all the MAC

Connect everyting using DHCP

Check if it is working

Note down every parameter

Set your Mac with FIX IP with the parameter you have note down

Tell me if it s working 

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 08:47
by marnix
Joined on Tue, Mar 16 2004, Vienna, Posts 987

Hi ChristopherH,

Please set all Subnet Masks to 255.255.255.0 instead of 255.255.0.0, then you should be able to automatically establish a VE Pro connection.

Best, Marnix

Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 21:52
by ChristopherH
Joined on Tue, Aug 30 2016, Posts 3

Hey, I tried changing the subnet to 255.255.255.0 on both computers but still no luck. Would there be an additional step for it to take effect? (ie Restarting my computer, etc? 

Thank you for your help! 

Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 21:55
by ChristopherH
Joined on Tue, Aug 30 2016, Posts 3

Originally Posted by: Cyril Blanc Go to Quoted Post

You can try this :

Didable WIFI on all the MAC

Connect everyting using DHCP

Check if it is working

Note down every parameter

Set your Mac with FIX IP with the parameter you have note down

Tell me if it s working 

I reconnected everything using DHCP and still nothing. The strange part is these were my default settings before I started messing with the static IP haha. Any suggestions why that's happening now? 

Thank you for your help!

Posted on Sat, Jun 09 2018 03:44
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2664

Hello

If it does not work with DHCP it is very bad.

Phone to Apple support they will help you  on line to remove the files so you start from scratch (they are very helpfull and it is free)

 

Good luck

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Sun, Feb 09 2020 16:41
by Joey Alarcon
Joined on Tue, Sep 24 2019, San Diego, CA, Posts 1

Hi, would really appreciate some insight here - I'm planning to connect a mac mini late 2012 as the master and a mac pro late 2009 as the slave. 

1.

For connecting: Do I need a

Gigabit Switch? If so, which one??? Type gigabit switch into amazon....

Gigabit Router? See above....

Or simply, a Cat6 "Gigabit" cable? Are all cat6 cables "Gigabit", and does "crossover" matter?

2. 

Can I still use wifi on the master and slave for basic web browsing?

3.

Is there a video walkthrough of someone setting up the static IP addresses? In system preferences, I configured the ethernet hardware to manual, speed to 1000baseT, but am unsure of the optimal settings for the Duplex/MTU/ABV/EAV Mode settings. 

Is there anyone who does private consults on these setups? I'd be happy to pay someone for a brief phone consult. Thanks so much!

Producer / Guitarist
Wolves at the Gate
Posted on Tue, Feb 11 2020 14:16
by composerguy78
Joined on Fri, Sep 14 2007, Los Angeles, Posts 77

Hi there,

I don't know if you actually need a gigabit switch or not but in my experience it works better with a switch than direct ethernet cable connection. Plus you only need a small one and they are very affordable these days.

Definitely get a few Cat 6 if not Cat 7 ethenet cables. - I experienced a NOTICEABLE difference from CAT 5. 

You should not need a gigabit router or a any router really. If you follow the instructions in the first thread you should be all set. Hang in there and be very thorough - It's about getting all those settings correct and restarting a lot and it will work...eventually!

Yes, you can use wifi on the master setup. You simply add an ethernet connection in system prefs and set service order.

If you really can't get it set up, I can help. felixbird.at.gmail.com

Felix

Originally Posted by: Joey Alarcon Go to Quoted Post

Hi, would really appreciate some insight here - I'm planning to connect a mac mini late 2012 as the master and a mac pro late 2009 as the slave. 

1.

For connecting: Do I need a

Gigabit Switch? If so, which one??? Type gigabit switch into amazon....

Gigabit Router? See above....

Or simply, a Cat6 "Gigabit" cable? Are all cat6 cables "Gigabit", and does "crossover" matter?

2. 

Can I still use wifi on the master and slave for basic web browsing?

3.

Is there a video walkthrough of someone setting up the static IP addresses? In system preferences, I configured the ethernet hardware to manual, speed to 1000baseT, but am unsure of the optimal settings for the Duplex/MTU/ABV/EAV Mode settings. 

Is there anyone who does private consults on these setups? I'd be happy to pay someone for a brief phone consult. Thanks so much!

Posted on Tue, Feb 11 2020 16:17
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 972

How do I tell VEP on the master computer to use the private network to talk to VEP on the slave? It just looks on the normal network...

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Tue, Feb 11 2020 17:06
by composerguy78
Joined on Fri, Sep 14 2007, Los Angeles, Posts 77
You can do that by dragging the Ethernet to be at the top of the service order in Network in system preferences.
See here: https://support.apple.co...e/mac-help/mchlp2711/mac

You can probably find some YouTube videos explaining this kind of thing.

If you follow the steps in the first thread of this discussion you should be all set. You will be able to see by the IP addresses listed in VE PRO that it is using the correct network.

If you have the Ethernet network at the top of the service order and the WiFi below that in both machines then you should be all set.

Once you have this set up, I recommend keyboard/mouse sharing software like Synergy so you can move seamlessly between machines.


Posted on Tue, Feb 11 2020 17:19
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 972

I on Window 10. I've setup the adaptor priorty on both systems. The VEP netowrk doesn't even show up in VEP.

The systems are connected with a stright ethernet cable; perhaps I need to try a crossover cable, though I can ping the other system.

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Wed, Feb 12 2020 13:58
by composerguy78
Joined on Fri, Sep 14 2007, Los Angeles, Posts 77
Originally Posted by: Bill Go to Quoted Post
I on Window 10. I've setup the adaptor priorty on both systems. The VEP netowrk doesn't even show up in VEP.
The systems are connected with a stright ethernet cable; perhaps I need to try a crossover cable, though I can ping the other system.


Have you tried turning off the Wi-Fi and getting it working?

Then once you’ve got it working properly, turn the WiFi back on. Is there a difference in performance?
Posted on Fri, Feb 14 2020 15:42
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 972

Both are desktop systems, so no WiFi. Each has 2 Ethernet ports, one for general use and internet (DHCP) and one for VEP (192,168.20.x) and set to first priority.

In the server connection window, the local host shows up with a strange ip, 127.0.0.1; don't remember if that was the case before. With the private network connected, the server on the slave system doesn't show up. If I unplug that cable, the slave server shows up with the with the general ip. I have a crossover cable coming tomorrow, so we'll see it that makes a difference.

I find it strange that there's so little information about working with a separate VEP network. I haven't seen anything here from VSL.

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Fri, Feb 14 2020 15:48
by composerguy78
Joined on Fri, Sep 14 2007, Los Angeles, Posts 77

Have you contacted VSL support regarding this?

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