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Recorder library questions
Last post Sun, Oct 20 2019 by Itchy, 27 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Nov 17 2017 18:02
by Albino
Joined on Sun, Apr 06 2008, UK, Posts 23
Hello all! I've just purchased the recorders library and first impressions are very good. However, there's a couple of points that I'm not sure about. The first relates to the Soprano patch 42 RE-So_perf-rep_leg_noVib which appears to have vibrato (which obviously it shouldn't), and it sounds the same as the vibrato patch 41 RE-So_perf-rep_leg_Vib. I wonder if any others have noticed this? The second involves the Alto & Tenor samples. The Alto notes G#5, A5, A5# (A# not so bad) and the The Tenor notes D#5, E5, F5 (F not so bad) sound rather "thin" or "reedy" compared to the others. I'm not sure if this is due to the idiosyncrasies of the instruments used (if it is, then all's well & good!) or an actual sample problem. I have tried reinstalling the library with no effect. These minor niggles slightly detract from what is an otherwise excellent library which to my ears is the best recorder library presently available. I hope someone can confirm these findings or explain any workarounds. Thanks for any help anyone can give.
Tags: recorders
Posted on Fri, Nov 17 2017 19:19
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 487
Originally Posted by: Albino Go to Quoted Post
The second involves the Alto & Tenor samples. The Alto notes G#5, A5, A5# (A# not so bad) and the The Tenor notes D#5, E5, F5 (F not so bad) sound rather "thin" or "reedy" compared to the others. I'm not sure if this is due to the idiosyncrasies of the instruments used (if it is, then all's well & good!) or an actual sample problem. I have tried reinstalling the library with no effect. These minor niggles slightly detract ...


Yes it sounds awful and different.

These "glassy sounding bugs" were communicated short after release of the Recorders many years ago. It seems that there Is no way to fix this, which is too bad. It destroys a good product which I do not use pretty much because of that.
—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Fri, Nov 17 2017 19:32
by Albino
Joined on Sun, Apr 06 2008, UK, Posts 23
Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
Yes it sounds awful and different.

These "glassy sounding bugs" were communicated short after release of the Recorders many years ago. It seems that there Is no way to fix this, which is too bad. It destroys a good product which I do not use pretty much because of that.



That is a shame as it takes the edge off the library. I'm very surprised that it's not been resolved considering the financial cost of the product along with the very high standards that VSL usually work to. I suppose one work around could be to use pitch bend, but that's a bodge at the very best! Still rather bemused by the vibrato on the non vibrato patch though.
Posted on Fri, Nov 17 2017 20:25
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 487
We are all surprised ;) ... definately one of the worst cases in a VSL product and pretty famous (as you can see on my fast reaction)

Do you have Melodyne or something comparable? Then you could reduce the Vibrato after the bounce. I know this makes everything technically and is time-eating...

But Melodyne has become my Secret weapon to close those Vienna-gaps after the bounce from Instrument-Tracks to Audio-Tracks.

(In general it would of course be timesaving and much more enjoyable to have Vienna-Self-Solutions)
—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Sat, Nov 18 2017 04:36
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5397
Posted on Sat, Nov 18 2017 05:35
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5397
Posted on Sat, Nov 18 2017 07:19
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 487
In general... I don't want to discuss with you, William. (Especially after reading the "crazy-threads" which were pretty amusing for me, but paint a terrible picture of some people here.)

But let me ask you something. If someone hears a problem in a Sound and even after years several people (INDEPENDEND from each other) explain exactly the same problem ... I think there must be something true on it. Do you agree?

It had been easy as a joke for such an experienced Company to artificially fix this bug by using a sample which is ok and layering it over these 3 Keys/samples which sound different AS FIRST SAMPLE.
—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Sat, Nov 18 2017 07:27
by Albino
Joined on Sun, Apr 06 2008, UK, Posts 23
Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

<p>Are these people shills for another company?&nbsp; &nbsp;I seriously wonder this...&nbsp; &nbsp;</p>


Here we go, there's always one! So everyone who has defined this fault is wrong?! I am not going to get into an argument with you. Life is too short for this kind of crap. I know what I can hear, and so can others.
Posted on Sat, Nov 18 2017 07:42
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 487
I just looked into the archiv and found this ...(same issue, same context)


https://www.vsl.co.at/co...enor-Recorder#post212927

Is he working for a competitor too???
—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Sat, Nov 18 2017 08:39
by Albino
Joined on Sun, Apr 06 2008, UK, Posts 23

Originally Posted by: LAJ Go to Quoted Post
I just looked into the archiv and found this ...(same issue, same context)


https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t34022-Odd-couple-of-notes-with-Tenor-Recorder#post212927

Is he working for a competitor too???

I found that thread too. Actually, if William had read my opening post he would have noticed that I had nothing but praise for this library! All I did was to point out some of its problems (obviously also noticed by other "shills for another company").

Posted on Sat, Nov 18 2017 15:38
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5397
Posted on Sat, Nov 18 2017 15:45
by Albino
Joined on Sun, Apr 06 2008, UK, Posts 23

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

My reaction is based on how you dismiss the entire library, saying it bad overall, simply for one flaw - which is hardly noticeable.  Instead of simply pointing out a bug.  But I have no interest in debating it.     

Two flaws actually. I would certainly not trash the whole on that basis. As I said ".. what is an otherwise excellent library which to my ears is the best recorder library presently available." As I like the library so much I am working around the debated "bad" samples using pitch bend. Everybody happy?!

Posted on Sun, Nov 19 2017 01:27
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5397
Posted on Sun, Nov 19 2017 04:07
by Xiaodong Li
Joined on Sat, May 28 2011, Posts 9

Although I don't own Recorders library, I can totally imagine the flaws you are talking about. I am flute player and have tried couple of sizes of recorders. I think it is because with recorders there are certain notes have several different fingering alternatives, each one has a different tone and intonation. It is tricky when sample these instruments, because the consistensy of tone is hard to remain, sometimes It is even impossible when you play long notes. (if it is in runs or trills that's ok).

Posted on Sun, Nov 19 2017 08:23
by Albino
Joined on Sun, Apr 06 2008, UK, Posts 23

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

No that doesn't make me happy.  

Never mind.

Posted on Sun, Nov 19 2017 11:46
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 487
Thank you Xi for bringing some light into this topic ;) Non-aggressive Contributions like this are always helpful!

Best
Lars
—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Mon, Nov 20 2017 02:49
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5397
Posted on Mon, Nov 20 2017 09:05
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7289

Dear William - please calm down. Xiaodong Li's message has been presenting perfectly valuable information. :-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Nov 26 2017 02:38
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5397
Posted on Sun, Oct 20 2019 03:14
by Itchy
Joined on Sat, Feb 18 2017, Posts 30

Is this the final word on the subject? Dietz? Such an old thread... but the issue of "bum notes" in (mainly) the Alto & Tenor Recorder instruments is really disappointing. These objectively weak notes should have been better volume-matched to the rest of the package and they simply were not. The only workarounds I've found mentioned here are pitch-bending or after-the-fact-Melodyne rendering. "Recorders" was nearly the first VSL library I bought, and it's great. But flawed. :(  Also, The Soprano Recorders “42 RE-So_perf-rep_leg_noVib” seems to be a duplicate of “41 RE-So_perf-rep_leg_Vib”, as Albino mentioned two years ago.

If I can extend the range of instruments using VI Pro, can't I replace a note (and it's dynamic variations) within an articulation/patch? Why in the world hasn't VSL issued an update for this library? How many "man-hours" are required to (not even re-record them but digitally) replace a few individual notes?

~Christopher
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