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Are MIR Templates Available?
Last post Thu, Aug 23 2018 by Dietz, 19 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 02:06
by pacificm
Joined on Fri, Mar 06 2015, South Salish Sea , Posts 74

MIR is an extraordinarily powerful tool.  It is also a tool that could be enhanced by the availability of templates.  Please excuse me if I am overlooking something available, but to my knowledge, MIR templates are not available.  Let me explain.  A MIR master could feasibly come up with an excellent set of mixes with varied MIR settings in varied venues for various orchestral and other intrumental set ups.

The availabillity of such templates could save newbies considerable time by using the templates to at least start with and then tweak if necessary for their own unique set ups and needs.  These could be avaibale either via commercially by VSL or through sharing in the forum.

I'm not familiar enough with all the capababilities and limitations of MIR to know whether this is something that is currently possible or available or whether or not it would require additional functionality to be built into MIR to make it feasible.  I suspect that one of the reasons for the develpment of Synchron is that many do not have the interest or patience to work with a MIR to achieve the excellent sound conditioning that is built into Synchron.

Please let me know any thoughts you may on the availability of MIR templates.

Thank you.

Posted on Tue, Jan 02 2018 09:09
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7447

Hi Pacificm,

thanks for your find words. I know that "presets" are on top of most users' wish-lists. Please keep in mind that MIR is much more than "just another reverb". It covers so many aspects of spatial mixing that it is almost impossible to create "one size fits all"-kind of presets, though. Still there's much to rely on:

  • For more or less each single Vienna Instrument MIR offers at least five tailor-made "Character Presets" which allow for straight-forward adjustments to the chosen instrument's sound. 
  • Then there are the so-called "Venue Presets" for all halls available for MIR Pro. They are collections of Venue-specific settings which render the "raw" sound of the Venue into something much more refined, with individual Main and Secondary Microphone settings, suggested Room EQs and the like. ... think of it as a team of professional reording engineers who were setting up the hall for your recording session. :-)
  • The most elaborated level of presets in MIR Pro can be accessed by enabling the so-called MIRx-mode. Here, I tried to achieve the impossible: A ready-made mix, for pieces of music not created yet. I sculpted individual EQ-settings for all (!) Vienna Instruments, taking into account their specific positions in one of five selected MIR Venues, with fine-tuned Room EQs, wet/dry-settings, Main and Secondary Microphone, and so on. - Read the announcement here
  • Finally, there are a few "ready-mades" for different purposes, from different sourcs. Here you'll indeed find complete templates which are of course highly dependent on the needs and taste of their originators, like Herb's Teldex Presets, or the Synchron Stage settings I did for the recent "Scoring Bundle"-offer. - You find all of them in the "Tutorials/Templates"-section of your MyVSL-user area on this site.

HTH!

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Jan 03 2018 03:10
by pacificm
Joined on Fri, Mar 06 2015, South Salish Sea , Posts 74

Dear Dietz,

I want to thank you so much for taking the time to point out so much helpful information to me about MIR.

I look forward to applying your suggestions to my work.

It is so reassuring to have someone in one part of the world reach out and help someone in another part of the world!  You made my day.

VSL is so fortunate to have you available to help us on this forum!

Thanks again!

Posted on Thu, Jan 25 2018 19:36
by Sing4doe
Joined on Sat, Jun 18 2005, Posts 88

Deitz- I'm checking out what you posted here and I understand that there are so many variables that a single set up is impossible in MIR but what would be helpful is some kind of chart that shows the positioning of instruments within a space like Synchron (and an option in VE Pro that places VIPro instruments in a suggested position in MIR would be great). I can guess on the placement through pictures but it sure would be nice to have a screen shot of how you guys position your instruments in the Synchron space and any additional mics you use to suppliment the stereo mic that is in the basic set up. From there I can tweak to customize it but just that head start would be great.

I just got my iMac Pro and I am rebuilding my template to take advantage of the headroom and ram. I'm also a DP user so a fix for the MAS plugin of VE Pro for DP would be a godsend. I know VSL is working on it but because the iMac Pro only runs on High Sierra I am stuck waiting for the fix to get the most out of my new rig. Just a gentle reminder that the glitch is a brutal blow to many who depend on DP and VEPro playing nicely.

Best- Geoff

Posted on Thu, Jan 25 2018 21:58
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7447

Hi Geoff,

I'm working on MIRx settings for Synchron Stage Vienna right now, so the presets you're asking for (and all the related automatisms for the use withe Vienna Instruments) should be available in the not-too-distant future. :-)

In the meantime, I'll do my best to supply you with a floorplan of the Synchron Stage recordings. This might take some time, though. :-) Thanks for your patience!

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Jan 25 2018 22:07
by Sing4doe
Joined on Sat, Jun 18 2005, Posts 88

Deitz-

That would be wonderful! I haven't used the MIRx settings in MIR Pro so I'll have to look up how to access them. From your DP/VEP/MIR Syncron template I got a lot of the info. I'm experimenting with different libraries to see if using Dimension strings on desks really makes that much of difference compared to the full section and experimenting with combinations of articulations to see the differences. It's pretty stunning so far. 

Appreciate what you do. Looking forward to the MIRx settings.

Best-

Geoff

Posted on Thu, Jan 25 2018 22:20
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 237

Yes, I am desperately waiting for Synchron Stage MIRx, too.

But in the meantime I am using the following which are quite helpful.

Recording chart from Synchron Percussion:
https://www.vsl.co.at/de/Percussion_Complete/Synchron_Percussion_I

The introduction video (watch at 2:30) from Synchron Stage:
https://www.synchronstage.com

And there is a similar from-above-view in the MIR RoomPack Synchron Stage Vienna Manual. It's in the user area, I don't know the direct link. The advantage here (and also in the video above) is that it also shows the positions of harp and piano.

Maybe it's helpful for some of you. :)

Posted on Sun, Jun 10 2018 23:37
by ZWaves
Joined on Mon, Dec 18 2017, Los Angeles, Ca, Posts 63

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

I'm working on MIRx settings for Synchron Stage Vienna right now, so the presets you're asking for (and all the related automatisms for the use withe Vienna Instruments) should be available in the not-too-distant future. :-)

Dear Dietz,

What's the status on the MIRx for the Synchron Stage?

I remember recently you've announced that unfortunately at some point you have located a major bug in the development of the add-on which forced you to start all over again. I was really sorry to hear that this has happened. So hopeflly you've been able to recover and make some progress this time around. I appreciate your hard work and dedication to the VSL community!

Best to you from L.A.,

-ZWaves

Special Edition Complete, SYNCHRON-ized SE Bundle (Vols.1-4), Single Instruments
Vienna Ensemble Pro, VI Pro 2, MIR Pro, MIRx Bundle
Cubase Pro, Logic Pro X, Pro Tools, Notion
macOS 10.15.3, Mac mini 6-Core i7, 64GB RAM
Posted on Mon, Jun 11 2018 07:25
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7447

Thanks for your friendly words!

The bug in the development software tool is fixed already. It went unnoticed for long, long time because the results I achieved _seemed_ to be completely plausible, but actually I was aiming at a moving target ... *sigh* ...

The main obstacle right now is that I have to schedule another three to four weeks in a row to re-do parts of the 400+ presets that make for a complete MIRx-Venue. 8-/ I'm booked to mix several productions until autumn, but I hope that I'll be able to squeeze in the necessary time slot during summer nonetheless.

... I'll keep you posted!

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jun 11 2018 09:39
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 270

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for your friendly words!

The bug in the development software tool is fixed already. It went unnoticed for long, long time because the results I achieved _seemed_ to be completely plausible, but actually I was aiming at a moving target ... *sigh* ...

The main obstacle right now is that I have to schedule another three to four weeks in a row to re-do parts of the 400+ presets that make for a complete MIRx-Venue. 8-/ I'm booked to mix several productions until autumn, but I hope that I'll be able to squeeze in the necessary time slot during summer nonetheless.

... I'll keep you posted!

Kind regards,

Hi Dietz,

thank you for your honest report, and for your commitment. No need to say that we can't wait for your professional presets, usually sounding better than mine... :) and so speeding up the workflow a lot.

Looking forward to them, hopefully soon... all the best

Fabio

Posted on Mon, Jun 11 2018 19:56
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 259

Dietz,

Will the Synchron Stage MIRx be set up to work in conjunction with the Synchron Series Orchestra series for those of us who want to blend the libraries?

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.4.8. Mojave & Windows 10.
Posted on Mon, Jun 11 2018 22:41
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7447

Hi Stephen,

actually I plan to do two very different setups: A first version will adhere to the tried-and-tested seating of all other MIRx setups for full compatibility, followed by a second one which leans towards the ideas of the Synchron Stage recording-team. The latter should make blending easy, but don't expect a 1:1 "carbon copy" of the Synchron Series: Due to the completely different microphone techniques used for the two products I will have to find out the "sweet spots" of MIR's Synchron Stage Venue from close to scratch.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Jun 12 2018 02:54
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 259

Right, totally.

Which one comes first?  Or will they be released at the same time?

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.4.8. Mojave & Windows 10.
Posted on Tue, Jun 12 2018 07:10
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7447

The "classical" MIRx version was almost done when the aforementioned bug raised its ugly head, and that's the one I'll re-do ASAP. But I have no idea yet whether it will be released immediately, or if there will be a "synchronized" release (pun intended ;-) ...) of both versions.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Jun 24 2018 14:03
by ZWaves
Joined on Mon, Dec 18 2017, Los Angeles, Ca, Posts 63

This is all good info! I'm keeping a close eye on this one :)

Consider me in if anything needs to be tested before or around release time. I'd be one of the first ones to load this puppy in when the time comes.

Thank you, Dietz!

Special Edition Complete, SYNCHRON-ized SE Bundle (Vols.1-4), Single Instruments
Vienna Ensemble Pro, VI Pro 2, MIR Pro, MIRx Bundle
Cubase Pro, Logic Pro X, Pro Tools, Notion
macOS 10.15.3, Mac mini 6-Core i7, 64GB RAM
Posted on Tue, Jun 26 2018 16:49
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

Looking forward to more MIRx presets to use in MirPro.  Also, I'm a newbie to both orchestral audio engineering as well as VSL in general.  MirPro is incredibly powerful and I'm looking forward to the day that I'm a master of it, but in the meantime, some more helpful guides about where and how to position players on each stage would be extremely helpful.  Right now its setup kind of like, here's a big room and some mics, go do it.  IF you have never recorded with an orchestra or worked in that audio engineering space, then I'm just making guesses about where the place players, which mics to use, etc.  I realize some of the character presets at least cover some of those aspects, but it would be supremely useful if there was some hints provided for standard stage positions, and mics to use for a cohesive sound, as if an experienced engineer was looking over my shoulder and telling me which presets to use from which stage positions.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Thu, Aug 23 2018 16:05
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

  • For more or less each single Vienna Instrument MIR offers at least five tailor-made "Character Presets" which allow for straight-forward adjustments to the chosen instrument's sound. 

I see those in the GUI.  Where are those preset files saved?

Quote:

  • Then there are the so-called "Venue Presets" for all halls available for MIR Pro. They are collections of Venue-specific settings which render the "raw" sound of the Venue into something much more refined, with individual Main and Secondary Microphone settings, suggested Room EQs and the like. ... think of it as a team of professional reording engineers who were setting up the hall for your recording session. :-)

Excellent thanks!  A couple points I want to make for my own clarity, those are VEP frame files, which means they are only useful if you have VEP.  Because they are VEP instance files, they include channels with instruments and thus the MIRPRO arrangement of each instrument on the soundstage, along with the output section of MIRPRO, which is that actual overall venue preset part of it.  THey are not directly loadable into mirpro as say, an engine project file would be...but the upside is that they include all the instrument placement on each stage.

Those were made before the roompack6, are there any venue presets for roompack6 yet?  

Quote:

  • The most elaborated level of presets in MIR Pro can be accessed by enabling the so-called MIRx-mode. Here, I tried to achieve the impossible: A ready-made mix, for pieces of music not created yet. I sculpted individual EQ-settings for all (!) Vienna Instruments, taking into account their specific positions in one of five selected MIR Venues, with fine-tuned Room EQs, wet/dry-settings, Main and Secondary Microphone, and so on. - Read the announcement here

Thanks I will explore this more.  Presumably I can go to mirx mode, get a preset loaded, then switch back out of mirx mode and still have all the venue settings that were in the mirx preset?  Then I could potentially save it as an engine project file to load into mirpro directly later.  yes?  But I guess in order to get the instrument placements on stage from those MIRX templates, it would have to be done in VEP and save as a frame file.  when used outside of VEP, does MIRPRO have any way at all to load a complete set of instruments and their placements?  My understanding as of now is that placement comes from each instance of the MIRPro plugin that resides on each channel of either VEP or within a DAW.  So if its within a daw, the only way to save that part of the venue configuration would be by saving the DAW project file.  With VEP you can capture it in the saved instance frame file.  Do I have that right?

Quote:

  • Finally, there are a few "ready-mades" for different purposes, from different sourcs. Here you'll indeed find complete templates which are of course highly dependent on the needs and taste of their originators, like Herb's Teldex Presets, or the Synchron Stage settings I did for the recent "Scoring Bundle"-offer. - You find all of them in the "Tutorials/Templates"-section of your MyVSL-user area on this site.

I will check those out.  I already had Herb's Teldex...which is a VEP frame, as descrribed above.  I will check out the other score template you made to see what I can pull out of it.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Thu, Aug 23 2018 16:15
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 590

one feature suggestion, I would love to be able to have a MIRPRO based file (Not a VEP frame), which basically has all the information for a single instrument, including not only the EQ and local mic settings, but also stage placement.  Then be able to load that into the mir pro plugin that is on any given track of a DAW or VEP in order to place that particular instrument in the same spot and orientation on a given stage.  I don't know maybe this won't matter to me once I have some VEP templates that work with groups of instruments.

I will also say, the amount of customization possible in terms of mic arrangement is astounding and impressive, but as a composer, its way over my engineering pay grade....so any and all future venue presets that can be provided to optimize a given venue will always be appreciated, and to a certain degree that also includes how to arrange players on the stage...this is all audio engineering stuff...  endless possibilities, but for a composer like me...that is also endless confusion.  I wouldn't have the foggiest idea what to do with the output editor in terms of changing mic patterns, or mics or orientation of mics, distance of mics, etc..  Looks amazing for folks that understand that kind of stuff better.  So anyway, just a humble request for as many presets as possible so that basically never would need to dig that deep at that kind of stuff, yet still have the ability to obtain a variety of different sound.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Thu, Aug 23 2018 20:38
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7447

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post
one feature suggestion, I would love to be able to have a MIRPRO based file (Not a VEP frame), which basically has all the information for a single instrument, including not only the EQ and local mic settings, but also stage placement.  Then be able to load that into the mir pro plugin that is on any given track of a DAW or VEP in order to place that particular instrument in the same spot and orientation on a given stage.  [...]

There are actually two ways to achive this already:

- In VE Pro, you can save so-called "Channel Sets" of as many channels you have selected (right-click in the Mixer or the Channels list). Recalling Channel Sets will instantiate new channels with all the plug-ins and settings they had when you saved them (including MIR Pro, but everything else, too).

- In MIR Pro you can save the settings of any selected Icon (right-click on the Icon). To recall them, you will have to have an Icon already instantiated on the stage of a MIR Pro Venue. No other plug-ins or routing-specific information will be saved in this case (which might be favourable under certain circumstances).

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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