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Ableton and VEP: Where Are the Midi PORTS
Last post Thu, Sep 12 2019 by rockstarjazzcat, 11 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Jan 09 2018 23:11
by Grodhisatva
Joined on Wed, Oct 09 2013, Posts 46

Paging Paul.... 

 

anybody know where in Ableton Live I can go to change the MIDI Port number? Not the MIDI channels (1 - 16), but the MIDI Port channel (1 - 8)

Posted on Tue, Jan 09 2018 23:16
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11306

Hi, 

AFAIK, Ableton Live does not support VST 3, so you only have one MIDI Port, I'm afraid. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Jan 10 2018 17:42
by Grodhisatva
Joined on Wed, Oct 09 2013, Posts 46

ah shucks. oh well.

thanks paul!

Posted on Mon, Sep 09 2019 08:11
by rockstarjazzcat
Joined on Mon, Aug 15 2016, Planet Earth, Posts 5

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi, 

AFAIK, Ableton Live does not support VST 3, so you only have one MIDI Port, I'm afraid. 

Best, 
Paul

Actually, Ableton 10 supports VST 3, but there doesn't seem to be a way in Live to reroute to a particular port on output.  Live depends on published ports being made available to the application.  Without getting into the specifics of their model, the VEPro plugin really should offer rerouting akin to what is available in the VEPro Event plugin, but I'd recommend VSL add midi channel selection to that as well.

Right now the stalemate is pretty effing irritating, and I'm not relishing switching back to another DAW for this.

Sincerely,
Daniel

Posted on Mon, Sep 09 2019 09:26
by rockstarjazzcat
Joined on Mon, Aug 15 2016, Planet Earth, Posts 5

p.s.  Yeah, it looks like there is no substantive difference between the VST and the VST3 versions of the plugin.  It's a shame.  I'd really really like to keep instruments in a single track without having to hack around the design limitations.

Posted on Mon, Sep 09 2019 10:56
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11306

Hi, 

I have requested the extension for multiple MIDI Ports for VST 3 in the Ableton Beta Forum a few times. Should not be very hard to achieve.... maybe Ableton needs a little push from enough users ;-)

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Sep 09 2019 11:31
by rockstarjazzcat
Joined on Mon, Aug 15 2016, Planet Earth, Posts 5
Thank you for the speedy response, Paul. With all due respect, and speaking as a developer with thirty years professional experience, I believe it’s going to be much easier for the VEPro plugin developers to provide port and channel parameters into their custom protocols. The industry has moved away from channels and ports for usability reasons. Vienna can ignore the Ableton paradigm if they want to, but at this point I feel like I’ve been sold a load of goods I cannot use, for no particularly good reason. I will continue to lobby Ableton as well, but to be clear, in this case I feel that’s an extremely long way around inadequate plugin design, crippling the operation of an industry standard product.

Alternatively, Vienna might look at making instances lighter weight and organizable as channels are now. But again, that’s a huge paradigm shift where someone in the plugin department could just sit down with a copy of Live for a day and realize what they should have considered already. Add a port and channel field to the plugin and relieve our collective headaches.

Kind regards, Daniel


Posted on Mon, Sep 09 2019 13:44
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1723

Unfortunately it isn't as easy as setting a "port per plug-in", since each plug-in (and instance) may live within its own processing chain - different threads, different blocksizes. 

In fact, the "Event input" plug-in already does what you want, but it also comes with a whole array of  drawbacks when used in a host that handles playback and recording tracks differently.

EDIT: The event input plug-in doesn't allow filtering channels, only ports.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Mon, Sep 09 2019 23:17
by rockstarjazzcat
Joined on Mon, Aug 15 2016, Planet Earth, Posts 5

Originally Posted by: MS Go to Quoted Post

Unfortunately it isn't as easy as setting a "port per plug-in", since each plug-in (and instance) may live within its own processing chain - different threads, different blocksizes. 

In fact, the "Event input" plug-in already does what you want, but it also comes with a whole array of  drawbacks when used in a host that handles playback and recording tracks differently.

EDIT: The event input plug-in doesn't allow filtering channels, only ports.

Thanks for your interest in this matter, Martin.

Regarding the former, as expected, not trivial, albeit abstracting away from the literal meaning of ports, I still think it's worth considering.  As for the latter, yes, your "edit" reveals what led to my posting here.

Neither Ableton or Vienna is really losing, at least as far as I'm concerned, as it's forcing me to crossgrade to Cubase for expression mapping.  Just an expensive and annoying bump in the road where the opportunity to improve on an otherwise already great product is concerned.  I'll end up using all three.  But that said, seems like folks on several DAW platforms are hacking around things that Vienna could provide.  It's the drug of a great product.  If most people think the programs do everything well already, it's hard to gain leverage towards improvement.

I wish you luck on any changes made moving forward.  Suffice it to say, I imagine that in any DAW, uniting midi routing out the send with graceful return of audio into a single track is going to make loads of people happier.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Posted on Tue, Sep 10 2019 13:51
by MS
Joined on Wed, Feb 19 2003, Liechtenstein, Posts 1723

Originally Posted by: rockstarjazzcat Go to Quoted Post

I wish you luck on any changes made moving forward.  Suffice it to say, I imagine that in any DAW, uniting midi routing out the send with graceful return of audio into a single track is going to make loads of people happier.

Exactly this is what is close to impossible to achieve today, and getting more and more difficult to achieve as time goes by. DAWs have kept moving in the direction of each plug-in being processed in its own little time- and buffer world, and synchronizing between plug-in instances has become incredibly difficult. Some hosts even completely pre-process certain tracks way ahead of time.

Consider this possible scenario:
- One plugin for MIDI events
- One plugin for audio return

The audio return plugin is buffered, and processed 30 seconds ahead of time. The midi plug-in is selected for recording, and is processed in realtime.

--
Martin Saleteg
Software Developer
Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH
Posted on Thu, Sep 12 2019 14:54
by rockstarjazzcat
Joined on Mon, Aug 15 2016, Planet Earth, Posts 5

So given the challenges that abound, maybe add that missing channel selector to the VST3 event plugin?

Thank you, Martin.

Kind regards,

Daniel

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