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Incoming Yamaha CFX
Last post Tue, May 01 2018 by mobileavatar, 36 replies.
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Posted on Sat, Jan 13 2018 08:35
by al_lupo77
Joined on Fri, Jun 09 2017, Posts 51

In the new catalog there is a good new: a fresh piano

Since I am mainly a pianist I was wondering some details, if someone can say something:

- I see samples for half-pedaling, that's fine. But will it support contiuous pedalling or it is step-based?

- No word on re-pedaling. Any chance?

 

I'm using Imperial for classical play, not for orchestration or post-editing, so I'm really missing this two features.

 

Thank you

Posted on Tue, Jan 30 2018 14:57
by al_lupo77
Joined on Fri, Jun 09 2017, Posts 51

I know it's NAMM time, but any change to get a reply? I can survive to a negative answer, too... 

Posted on Thu, Feb 01 2018 02:56
by Mike B Studios
Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2012, Hollywood, CA, Posts 410

Originally Posted by: al_lupo77 Go to Quoted Post

I know it's NAMM time, but any change to get a reply? I can survive to a negative answer, too... 

 

Hello Al_Lupo,

I caught up with our friends from Vienna just last night at Westlake Pro in North Hollywood. We were given the 2018 catalog (I think you may have it).

On page 21 under Keyboards Complete is the Yamaha CFX listed as NEW with a note Available Q2/2018.

No idea if it's going to be closer to April or June. As it is a part of The Synchron Series lets hope it's sooner rather than later.

You said you now use the Imperial... Is that the Boosendorfer or Vienna Imperial?

 

Greetings from Hollywood,

Mike B.

Posted on Thu, Feb 01 2018 07:25
by al_lupo77
Joined on Fri, Jun 09 2017, Posts 51

Originally Posted by: Mike B Studios Go to Quoted Post

 

Hello Al_Lupo,

I caught up with our friends from Vienna just last night at Westlake Pro in North Hollywood. We were given the 2018 catalog (I think you may have it).

On page 21 under Keyboards Complete is the Yamaha CFX listed as NEW with a note Available Q2/2018.

No idea if it's going to be closer to April or June. As it is a part of The Synchron Series lets hope it's sooner rather than later.

You said you now use the Imperial... Is that the Boosendorfer or Vienna Imperial?

 

I've seen it on the on-line catalog before NAMM, I knew it will be availalbe later this year BUT... I was wondering if will be a "programming" instrument or a real-like playing piano.

I'm using Vienna Imperial and I miss only these two features...

Posted on Thu, Feb 01 2018 19:48
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12196

Hi, 

Of course it will be a real-like playing piano, and as it looks like now, it will include half-pedaling and re-pedaling.

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Feb 01 2018 20:02
by al_lupo77
Joined on Fri, Jun 09 2017, Posts 51

Thanks Paul 

Posted on Mon, Mar 19 2018 18:54
by Francis Martin
Joined on Sun, Feb 04 2018, Deutschland, Posts 6

Hello Paul,

in addition to the information in the "VSL Catalog 2018", could further technical details for the upcoming "YAMAHA CFX" already be made like:

1. Quality of the resolution (bit/kHz)?

2. Number of velocities?

3. File size (GB)?

4. Number of samples included? 

5. Modeling or sampling for sympathetic resonances? 

6. The number of samples per key (approx. 480) seems to be much lower compared to the recorded samples per key (up to 1.200) for the "VIENNA IMPERIAL". Will there be a Standard-Library and a Full-Library or Special Edition/PLUS Volume for the "YAMAHA CFX" with more recorded samples per key and more velocity layers?

Thank you, Frank

Posted on Sat, Apr 07 2018 19:02
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 971

I assume this must be the instrument used:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2GYYV8JSqM

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Mon, Apr 09 2018 10:12
by Francis Martin
Joined on Sun, Feb 04 2018, Deutschland, Posts 6

In that YouTube-clip you've linked, which is already well known, the grand piano on the right - a new YAMAHA CFX Disklavier ENSPIRE PRO - IS of course the used instrument for the upcoming new product of the VSL SYNCHRON SERIES, the YAMAHA CFX. But this alone says absolutely nothing about the quality of the upcoming new VSL-sample-library!

My post is from the 19th of March and since then NO answer from Paul. It was enough time, it's a shame, and it's pretty rude, as it was my very first post. We will see if he will post an answer in connection with the Musikmesse 2018, which will start in two days.

I hope, with the upcoming VSL YAMAHA CFX the goal was to create a better product in every sense than the GARRITAN CFX.

For me personally the VSL VIENNA IMPERIAL, which was sampled from the BÖSENDORFER IMPERIAL with its CEUS-technology was a great disappointment. I was at the Musikmesse 2009, when that product was first presented. I played it extensively and it didn't sound well, and indeed, it never sounded great for me. So I have great expectations now with the upcoming VSL YAMAHA CFX.

For the next years I hope that VSL will do a second grand piano product in addition to the VSL YAMAHA CFX. Since both companies are austrian, it should be the BÖSENDORFER 280VC. This instrument is now available as a "Disklavier Edition" with the ENSPIRE PRO-technology from YAMAHA.

The CEUS-reproducing system from BÖSENDORFER with its dynamic resolution range of only 250 steps was never as good as the Disklavier PRO-technology from YAMAHA with its high resolution range of 1024 steps. And in addition, the CEUS-system was not very precise in many aspects. I would never make a recording/reproducing session with that system for professional purposes. The reproduced result is by far not "exactly" that what you've played before. In my opinion it makes no sense to use that CEUS-junk and the only benefit is to use that very instrument without its CEUS-gimmick as a grand-piano-only, because of its special sound.

So, I hope VSL can somehow get rid of their CEUS-BÖSENDORFER instrument reasonably well and can make a very good deal about a new acquisition of a 280VC ENSPIRE PRO.

Posted on Mon, Apr 09 2018 15:20
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12196

Hello everybody, 

First off my apologies, I didn't mean to be rude. 

We will release all information when we are ready, and that's as soon as beta-testing is done and all final decisions have been made.

Thanks for your patience, I know it is hard to wait. 

Best, 
Paul 

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Apr 10 2018 09:13
by Pbest
Joined on Tue, Apr 03 2018, Posts 23

I agree with you in some part, Martin,

but I like the playability and sound of VSL Vienna Imperial very much with the fact that it express the character of the Bosendorfer 290,

I respect others like you because it is a personal taste, but there are so many who are satisfied with the sound of VSL Vienna Imperial like me :)

Posted on Wed, Apr 11 2018 14:26
by TFIS
Joined on Tue, Dec 14 2010, Posts 106

Even the new Yamaha Piano won't have more than 127 velocity steps. ;)

Posted on Wed, Apr 11 2018 18:34
by Francis Martin
Joined on Sun, Feb 04 2018, Deutschland, Posts 6

Please have a look at my post from March 19th, last question 6.:

"The number of samples per key (approx. 480) [VSL YAMAHA CFX] seems to be much lower compared to the recorded samples per key (up to 1.200) for the "VIENNA IMPERIAL".

Because of that information on p. 21 in the "VSL Catalog 2018" I asked : "Will there be a Standard-Library and a Full-Library or Special Edition/PLUS Volume for the "YAMAHA CFX" with more recorded samples per key and more velocity layers?"

Behind this is my assumption that the new VSL YAMAHA CFX library will probably have significantly fewer layers than the VSL VIENNA IMPERIAL library from 2009 with its 100 layers.

So, I'm completely with you. But the BÖSENDORFER IMPERIAL 290 is not my grand piano. I've never played an Imperial with which I was happy with. And I've played a lot.  But I don't like this model. In contrast, I immediately found that the sound and the action of the old model 280 - which is actually a not so old model, in fact it was introduced in 2001 as the successor of the model 275 - is just fantastic. The same with its successor, the new model 280VC, which debuted in 2015.

BÖSENDORFER had a lot of bad luck with very questionable decisions in the past. For that they finally got their receipt in 2007. YAMAHA receives the "crown jewels" in piano making from BÖSENDORFER. For this, BÖSENDORFER gets the right to survive from YAMAHA, but just like a dog on a short leashSo, whether his master will allow it to be on stage of the major international piano competitions in Warsaw and Moscow? Cause their new concert-grand-model 280VC is of course absolutely fantastic and at eye level with STEINWAY & SONS, SHIGERU KAWAI, FAZIOLI and YAMAHA.

And what do i have of 100 layers of a model which I do not like?!? And more than 127 layers...? With normal MIDI-programming? Don't understand exactly what you mean...

On the other hand, the 1024 dynamic levels on a reproducing grand like the BÖSENDORFER 290SE - the digital reproducing technology, the so called SE-system, was developed by genious American engineer Wayne Stahnke in the late '70s, first delivery to a private customer in June 1978, and was then licensed to BÖSENDORFER, who built 37 SE-grands from 1984-1986 - played in a total different league than the CEUS-system from the same company. And again, BÖSENDORFER's CEUS - which was introduced to the market about 30 years later in June 2007 - with its 250 reproducing levels is (better say was!) an inferior reproducing system in terms of timing and precision. Maybe for private use it was more elegant in terms of handling - for professional use it had several serious disadvantages. BTW, from 1991 to 2001, Wayne Stahnke worked for YAMAHA as a member of the Disklavier PRO design team, which was the answer to the Stahnke Engineering BÖSENDORFER SE. Funny!

To make it clear: Look at the technical specs and you will see, that the CEUS-system was a step backwards to Stahnke's SE-system. And CEUS was much to expensive. Does anyone remember the CEUSmaster-project? Years over years of configuration with 3 prototypes at a total. Even in February 2007 you could read: "The 'CeusMaster' is to be established in the medium term as a profit center for BÖSENDORFER." In the end, no profit center but a cost grave and no CEUSmaster, no digital BÖSENDORFER. YAMAHA finished that long-time-drama in 2008 and the two "leading heads" of that project left BÖSENDORFER. Short time after, who would have thought that, in 2009 YAMAHA'S AVANTGRAND hybrids as the successor to their former GRANTOUCH hybrids from the '90s debuted to the market.

Back to the actual topic: For sampled layers in combination with editing the recorded session, the old MIDI with its 127 levels are the maximum at the moment. Even YAMAHA/STEINBERG is not able to deliver a software editor for its high-resolution XP data (XP for "eXtended Precision"). In the past there was such an editor in the market, called RePerform from ZENPH Sound Innovations, the genious Dr. John Walker. With that editor for the YAMAHA Disklavier PRO you could edit its 1023 layers. But since all that - Stahnke's LIVE PERFORMANCE LX system and Dr. Walker's ZENPH - was sold to STEINWAY & SONS, where it was a clever move to motivate non-players to buy their totally overpriced player-grands, called SPIRIO. Since then the retrofittable and affordable (!) LIVE PERFORMANCE LX and the RePerform-software disappeared from the market and it was not possible to edit the once recorded high-resolution XP data from the YAMAHA Disklavier ENSPIRE PRO anymore. Editing YAMAHA's XP data went on just with normal low MIDI-resolution. What a success for STEINWAY to send back YAMAHA to the stone-age! And without irony, because of STEINWAY's stroke of genius the YAMAHA ENSPIRE PRO-system has only a conditionally/restricted professional usability.

But to avoid misunderstandings, the ENSPIRE PRO-system as an evolution of the PRO-technology, which debuted in 1998, is a much more accurate system - in terms of precision and timing - in recording and playback than the CEUS-system ever was. 

Finally, I really would like to see (and of course to buy) a "Special Edition/PLUS Volume" for the VSL YAMAHA CFX with about 100 layers, as I've asked for in my post. And in addition, later on it would be pretty logic for a viennese company to see a VSL BÖSENDORFER 280VC with about 100 layers too, cause it is a fantastic sounding concert grand. And as far as I know there is no 280VC sample library on the market.

Both could be reference-products for a long time - an industry standard. But now I hope that  - as a first step - the "team" VSL YAMAHA CFX / VIENNA SYNCHRON PLAYER will be THE reference-product in the near future.

In the moment the Oscar goes to GARRITAN CFX. Sure that will change.

Posted on Sat, Apr 21 2018 10:05
by Stefan
Joined on Tue, Oct 10 2006, Posts 519
Stefan Steinbauer
Sales Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Apr 21 2018 15:14
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 518
Bought! Soon. Very soon 👍

Regarding to „be prepared“ ... the most important question for our preparations: SSD space ... where are we?

Thanks.
Posted on Sun, Apr 22 2018 01:37
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 549

Originally Posted by: Stefan Go to Quoted Post

Look forward to hearing some more soon Stefan! I did come across the news on another forum about the upcoming piano, so will be looking forward to more news from vsl!

 

thank you for sharing the demo.

Steve :-)

Posted on Wed, Apr 25 2018 22:19
by slobajudge
Joined on Tue, Mar 24 2015, Posts 6

Originally Posted by: Stefan Go to Quoted Post

Thanks Stefan, but can you put that video on Youtube or similar, without need to have an account please. Thank you.

Posted on Thu, Apr 26 2018 11:17
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 518

 

It seems that somebody changed the link, because the first link was leading to a MONO-Demo ;) ... now it is STEREO and sounds quite more impressive ...

 

here is a link that works ...

 

https://www.facebook.com/viennasymphoniclibrary/

Posted on Fri, Apr 27 2018 12:23
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 971

The download manager has just been updated. Perhaps we're close...

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Mon, Apr 30 2018 15:17
by al_lupo77
Joined on Fri, Jun 09 2017, Posts 51

Vienna Instruments/Vienna Ensemble 6.0.16999

• Added: Support for Synchron Pianos

 

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