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Some help before purchasing Mir Pro
Last post Mon, Apr 27 2020 by Dietz, 54 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Oct 02 2019 20:24
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 225

Many, many thanks, Dietz! I'm very happy with these. Made my day. ;)

Pity that there's no way to implement the individual EQ settings. Still hoping for an official MIRx release... I know I'm repeating myself, but, as a VI (and not SYNCHRON-ized) user I feel a bit neglected and disappointed.

But is there a way to export the settings into a text format or something? So that one could look them up and manually add an EQ plugin with these values?

But no problem, at this point one can look up the individual EQs of the SYNCHRON-ized special editions, that's they way I'm doing it, but most of the time I take the “pure” setting in MIR Pro.

But I'm wondering if the SYNCHRON-ized settings are to be compared to the character EQ (Pre-EQ) or the Room EQ? Or both?

Posted on Thu, Oct 03 2019 10:29
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7385

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

Many, many thanks, Dietz! I'm very happy with these. Made my day. ;)

You're welcome!

Quote:
[...] as a VI (and not SYNCHRON-ized) user I feel a bit neglected and disappointed.

I totally understand your feelings on an emotional level, but it's not like we took away something or the like. ;-) Trust me: In the end, all will be good - it just takes more time than we expected.

Quote:
[...] I'm wondering if the SYNCHRON-ized settings are to be compared to the character EQ (Pre-EQ) or the Room EQ? Or both?

Errrrr ... the RoomEQ affects only the "wet" part of MIR Pro's Output signal (i.e. the impulse responses themselves), while the Character- (i.e. "Pre-")EQs are used for the instruments' dry/direct signals. MIRx and Synchronized VI's rely on both, therefore. The MIR Engine Setting I uploaded in my previous message contains only the RoomEQ, as individual sources signals aren't part of them. - While I've been in the lucky position to differentiate between these RoomEQ settings even further when working on (say) Synchronized Appassionata Violins and Dimension Violns, this is of course not the case in MIRx (Mode), where there are more global settings for _all_ violins, _all_ violas, etc.

... does this answer your question?

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Oct 04 2019 19:39
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 225

Thanks, Dietz. 

I know about the aspects of Room EQ and Character EQ in MIR Pro, maybe it was a language thing. I try again.

At the moment, I look up the EQ settings of the SYNCHON-ized special editions in the Synchron Player and try to apply these for my instruments in MIR Pro with Vienna Suite EQ.

In the Synchron Player you have (only) one EQ, so is this comparable to the Character EQ or a combination of both Room EQ and Character EQ? I'm asking, because I don't know if there will be problems when combining the SYNCHRON-ized EQ settings with your Room EQ settings.

Hope it's clear what I mean. 

Posted on Fri, Oct 04 2019 20:24
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7385

Oh, I see. :-)

The EQ in Synchron Player serves the same purpose as Character EQ of MIR / the Pre EQ of MIRx. The RoomEQ is "burnt-in" into the IRs used for "Synchronisation" of Vienna Instruments. A "combined" EQ wouldn't work.

Regarding your second question: You could use Synchronized VIs in MIR Pro with "Pure" Character and apply any RoomEQ you want to choose.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Oct 04 2019 21:00
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 225

Thanks, all questions answered!

Posted on Sat, Apr 25 2020 19:41
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 225

I'm trying to make my own MIRx version with the "templates" Dietz provided here in this thread. Thanks again for giving us these! It's a good starting point and I stumbled upon some more questions. Maybe Dietz can chime in...

I'm talking about the SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions here.

  1. In the Synchron Player nearly all instruments (with only some exceptions) have the same dry/wet setting, e.g. 30% with the classic preset. I'm wondering why, because if I take the Teldex MIRx settings I can see very different settings between the instruments (e.g. violins at 42% and cellos at 28%). Is this dependent on the room itself? Or do the instruments indeed have individual settings "in the background"?
  2. In the "template" the reverb length is 1.38. Do all instruments have this value? I'm asking, because in the Synchron Player the instruments have individual values when you open the IR module (e.g. the solo violin has 1.1 and the clarinet has 0.9). 
  3. Do all instruments share the same microphone settings? Maybe some have the secondary one deactivated?

Many thanks in advance.

Posted on Sat, Apr 25 2020 20:01
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7385

Hi Pixelpoet,

I can't answer all your questions with authority, because although I'm the guy who comes up with the MIR Pro settings for the VSL's "Synchronized" series, I'm not the one who actually implements them into Synchron Player.

ad 1: The settings you see in Synchron Player are derived from the individual wet/dry ratios exported from MIR Pro which is treated as "new zero" there. 

ad 2: All IR exports are made with the same reverb length in MIR Pro, which is again treated as "new zero" in Synchron Player (AFAIK).

ad 3: All exports are made with exactly the same mic setup chosen in MIR Pro (which differs vastly from the multi-mic array used for the actual Synchron Series due to the Ambisonics format used troughout MIR Pro - but that's a different story altogether. :-) ...)

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Apr 25 2020 22:17
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 225

Thanks for your answers! :)

So this means that e.g. the cellos with 30% dry/wet in the Synchron Player are actually only 24% for example? This is the same behaviour with MIRx in VI Pro, isn't it? The standard value of 63 ("new zero") represents an individual value in the background.

Oh my ... I though it would be much easier to mimic the Synchron settings. I thought all instruments are set to 30% dry/wet ratio, and I'm fine with it.

As I don't think there will be a Synchron MIRx release, it's really frustrating to make all these settings on my own. Can the Teldex MIRx settings be a good starting point, because it's also a scoring stage? Or are the dry/wet ratios really that different with each room (more or less)?

Posted on Sun, Apr 26 2020 14:39
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7385

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post
[...] I don't think there will be a Synchron MIRx release [...]

Quite contrary - I work on it as we speak. Just don't expect an release too soon, please; there's still an awful lot to be done.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Apr 26 2020 15:02
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 225

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post
[...] I don't think there will be a Synchron MIRx release [...]

Quite contrary - I work on it as we speak. Just don't expect an release too soon, please; there's still an awful lot to be done.

Okay, sounds very (!) good, but I've heard this before several times from different people. I don't know what to believe. We've been talking about this for years. :(

I don't want a release date, but if this is actually an official statement saying that there will be a Synchron MIRx... this is awesome. I only wished this statement were made by VSL earlier, instead of neglecting all the other threads here in the forum don't saying anything about it.

But is there a coarse shedule? I mean can we expect a release this year? Because then I don't have to make all the effort on my own.

Thanks, Dietz!

Posted on Sun, Apr 26 2020 15:40
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7385

I never "neglected" any message I was aware of regarding that topic, but of course it might have happened that I missed one or the other. It has always been _me_ who said that there was a hiatus in MIRx-SSV development after I realized a well-hidden, but severe technical issue in the in-house tools used for their creation (... rendering all my almost finished work of many weeks*) more or less useless). It's also _me_ who says that MIRx SSV will become reality, and it's very likely that this will happen this year (i.e. 2020). 

If there would be an offcial statement you would get it through the official marketing channels of VSL, not by means of an individual reply to your quite specific set of questions in a sub-panel of a user-forum, though.

*) A personal sidenote: Believe it or not, there's no devilish plan to make VSL customers suffer, but just an audio guy (like me) who can't stand to listen for the same minute-long test sequence for months several times a year - which is a must to make 400+ instruments fit together as good as possible. Thanks for your understanding.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Apr 26 2020 19:10
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 225

I was not talking about you primarily. And it shouldn't sound in any way impolite or anything like this. I asked several people and got different answers which always sounded like a consolation for a postponement which will never happen. Thanks for clarifying that there is "no devilish plan" involved. :)

But to be honest: It's only very odd that these technical issues are already several years back (I can't remeber the exact year). In the meantime the SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions have been released. I'm wondering how can this be? Aren't these the MIRx settings? Probably I don't know much about these things...

I'm very looking forward to the release.

Posted on Mon, Apr 27 2020 10:37
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7385

The technical issues have been solved by now, but my main business is producing and mixing music. It's not as easy as it seems to find six to eight consecutive weeks in my time-table without other obligations. Thing is: I simply can't create MIRx settings piecemeal as I lose context even after a break of only three or four days. The results would be less coherent (... I tried it).

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Apr 27 2020 10:46
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7385

PS: 

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

[...] In the meantime the SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions have been released. I'm wondering how can this be? Aren't these the MIRx settings? Probably I don't know much about these things... [...]

Synchronized VIs rely on a similar approach, that's true, but there are several differences to MIRx:

- there are real recordings I can use at least as a reference (thus it's much easier to keep things in relation)

- the orchestral seating is very different 

- I didn't have to complete the whole bunch of 400+ instruments at once

- I have more degrees of freedom as I can use different RoomEQs for similar groups of instruments (other than MIRx, where all 1st violins rely on the same RoomEQ setting, for example)

- there are other VSL engineers with good ears who do the finishing, so any peculiarities based on my personal taste will get  straightened out to a certain extent.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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