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Is Historic Winds IV coming with the missing reeds?
Last post Wed, Oct 16 2019 by PaoloT, 38 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Mar 26 2018 12:15
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 262

 

Hello,

is it planned to complete the collection with the Bassoon/dulciana and with reeds/double reeds (e.g. classical Clarinet, and Schawm/Bombardas consort)?

cheers

Fabio

Posted on Mon, Mar 26 2018 12:29
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 496
Not to say about the missing Renaissance trombone! (And a more modular packaging...)

Paolo
Posted on Mon, Mar 26 2018 13:25
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11544

Hi Paolo, 

I'm afraid this is not planned in the near future. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Mar 26 2018 14:55
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 496

Paul, not to interfere with your plans, but – unless I miss something – I had to see that there is no really usable sample of Renaissance trombone around. A company did it in the past, but it seems to have disappeared. Tarilonte has a beautiful one in one of his collections, but it is quite limited in privileging louder dynamics and fantasy applications.

As you know, late-Renaissance and early-Baroque music did heavy use of the cornetto+trombone ensemble. So, a Renaissance trombone would be a very useful addition to your collection, and would be a much needed companion to your cornetto.

Paolo

Posted on Mon, Mar 26 2018 22:45
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 262

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi Paolo, 

I'm afraid this is not planned in the near future. 

Best, 
Paul

Well... actually the trombone or the reeds? Or none... ? ( It was my post, LOL )

Posted on Tue, Mar 27 2018 07:49
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11544

Hi, 

It's always great to see much interest in our products. Keep it coming (and purchase the products that are already available ). 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Mar 28 2018 16:54
by esperlad
Joined on Thu, Nov 07 2002, Posts 230

I think there should be a collection of Baroque Strings. The playing styles are different. Having older sampled instruments would be an excellent addition. My hope is that standard ornaments would be sampled. For example: trills, mordents, turns, and rapid scales. The vibarato would not be featured much as its use would be used more in 19th, 20th, and 21st century works. I would suggest progressive vibrato for legato and sustained patches. Detache/Portato could have patches with and without vibrato. Otherwise, samples without vibrato.

Posted on Wed, Mar 28 2018 21:42
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 496
Esperlad, don't Chamber Strings already include most of these articulations?

Paolo
Posted on Thu, Mar 29 2018 15:48
by esperlad
Joined on Thu, Nov 07 2002, Posts 230

The short answer: Not really!

I looked over the artiucation list and some areas are not clear. The legato is only listed as legato. It is not stated if any vibrato is used. The only clear articulation that mentions this is the sustained patch.

Only trills have been sampled. The other ornaments have not been sampled. Scale runs have been sampled only for the orchestral strings are solo strings.  There needs to be a conserted focus on non-vibarto patches. Open strings would be helpful for this collection. I don't believe the Chamber Strings have open strings.

I believe the strings used are modern instruments. Period instruments are important!! To say that these violins are exactly the same as their baroque counterparts is like saying the modern flute is the same as the transverse flute. The sounds may be similar, but there is a difference. 

The zigano technique is good to have, but I am not sure if it is suitable for baroque music.

A baroque solo violin could be very useful. I feel that you can never have too many solo violins.

Posted on Fri, Mar 30 2018 10:02
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 496

While there isn't a library of authentic baroque strings, I think we can at least have a St. Martin-in-the-fields-like pseudo-baroque sound with the existing library.

Considering that Harnoncourt was Austrian, a library of baroque strings would be at the right place in the VSL catalogue. Vegetarians will not be allowed to buy it.

Paolo

Posted on Fri, Mar 30 2018 13:09
by Philippe BAYLAC
Joined on Thu, Sep 01 2011, ROCQUENCOURT, Posts 302

Hi,

here are some baroque / post baroque demos I did with the available VSL strings libraries (Solo, chamber and Dimension) :

J.S.BACH - B Mass - Qui Sedes ad dexteram patris

J.S.BACH - B Mass - Agnus Dei

J.Ph. RAMEAU - Nais - Pastorale héroïque - Ouverture

J.S BACH - Harpsichord concerto BWV 1058 mixed in MIR PRO

CPE BACH - Flute concerto WQ 166 - First mouvement - Figured bass not yet realized

Woodwinds are not from historic winds. I should consider to remix with the new HW libraries ...

It's difficult do something satisfying with the few usables articulations of the availlable libraries So, i totally agree : a baroque strings library would be a GREAT idea !

Best.

Philippe

Posted on Fri, Mar 30 2018 14:42
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 395

Another vote/request for VSL Baroque Strings Library (Recorded in Synchron Hall).  

No developer so far has produced a serious, high-quality Baroque Strings Library, it would be fantastic if VSL would be the first to do this. Instant buy for me ! 

Posted on Fri, Mar 30 2018 19:44
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 262

Guys, I'm so happy about you posting nice ideas (which I totally subscribe)... but...

May I remind you that the thread was about "Historic Winds" (actually about Reeds by the way)?

Doesn't sounds a bit weird discussing Strings instead?

all the best

Fabio

Posted on Thu, Apr 05 2018 14:59
by esperlad
Joined on Thu, Nov 07 2002, Posts 230

In these modern times, very little appears to be "weird" or "strange".

I brought up the strings because I saw the word: 'historic'. Also, Paul appeared to be encouring ideas of other possible products. 

However, an important point was brought up about other historic winds. I firmly believe that a baroque Bassoon is essential. With the two Bassoons already available, users could layer the three instruments if desired. I think a Sackbut was used in the baroque era instead of a trombone. Now, I will be "weird" again: I would love to see a lute and a mandolin. How does anyone feel about a Viola d'amore? 

Posted on Thu, Apr 05 2018 16:57
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 496

I wonder how the futuristic Metropolis-inspired VLS logo would look like, with a wig!

Paolo

Posted on Sun, Sep 15 2019 22:27
by Itchy
Joined on Sat, Feb 18 2017, Posts 30
fwiw/my 2cents is that these ancient instruments are sorely missed:
dulcian satb
baroque bassoon
sackbut
satb violas da gamba
baroque violin, perhaps
Thanks for considering, VSL!
~Christopher
Posted on Mon, Sep 16 2019 14:44
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 496

I'm in need of late-Renaissance/Baroque instruments, and unfortunately there are very few of them. I guess they are not exactly mainstream.

What do we have, as of now, from Itchy's list?

- A dulcian exists in Fluffy's Rinascimento, and one in Best Service's Ethno World (this one isn't even listed in the manual, and has the odd name of "ducaine"). EW's one is very limited in dynamics and articulations. Not bad for giving a flavor of Renaissance, but not great for a realistic mockup. Simulating it with a modern bassoon is out of question, for how different it sounds. Smaller dulcianas, very often used at the time, are not available anywhere.

- Baroque bassoon seems to be unavailable anywhere. But could we consider a moder bassoon, with the n.v. articulations, a viable replacement? Mostly, I think the difference is in playing style and extension.

- Sackbut is available in Rinascimento, and Tarilonte's Era II. This latter only plays f-ff, and seems more intended for giving a hint of the sound of festive events. No way to use it for subdued and nuanced Flemish/Venetian sacred music. I find that modern trombones can simulate the soft dynamic range. In particular, by mixing n.v. sustains and soft-attack portato articulations. Higher dynamics sound very different, however, so there is no replacement in VSL's library.

(By the way: did I say anything about how much I need late-Renaissance brass? Ab oriente venerunt magi)

- Judging from the libraries I have and the demos I could listen to, the only good viola da gamba is the one made by Cinesamples. This is the only one I can think of that could stand next to a future VSL one. Only one size, however.

- Baroque strings: Philippe has shown how good Dimension Strings are, for this task. We still lack ornaments. VSL has stopped recording trills in the latest libraries. But informed performers spend a lot of time in their life to learn how to play them as they should. I doubt I could replicate them with my ordinary skills. Actually, I can't even play an ordinary trill as well as a recorded performer.

Paolo

Posted on Mon, Sep 16 2019 15:15
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 496

Oh, and if someone here thinks wigs are out of fashion forever, think twice!

High Rise

Paolo

Posted on Tue, Sep 17 2019 00:49
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5405

I agree that another addition is really needed especially sackbuts.  This would give you a complete historic brass section!  Right now it is great with the trumpet and horns but missing the low end.  

Historic Winds IV - Heraldic Trumpets and Sackbuts.  

Posted on Thu, Sep 19 2019 03:42
by Itchy
Joined on Sat, Feb 18 2017, Posts 30
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<ul>
<li>Paolo, there&rsquo;s an authentic Baroque Bassoon instrument out there[img]null[/img]</li>
<li>re: sackbuts for use in double-choir pieces (Willaert, Gabrieli, et al.) and with cornetti in general: I have the&nbsp;Rinascimento library but haven't dug in yet.</li>
<li>Would it be at all convincing&nbsp;to&nbsp;make a composite pseudo-sackbut&nbsp;emulation ...at least for certain&nbsp;limited&nbsp;ranges&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;limited dynamics?&nbsp;Maybe adding customized EQ in addition to a&nbsp;dynamic LP filter? I've got VSL's Organ, Cimbasso, Wagner Tuba, Flugelhorn, &amp; Bass Trumpet as ingredients. What do you think? Has anyone experimented with using the attack of one horn but the body &amp; tail of another?</li>
<li>I think I read somewhere the idea of a mickey-mouse cornetto by combining flugelhorn &amp; heckelphone. Not quite.&nbsp; :)</li>
</ul>
Itchy attached the following image(s):
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~Christopher
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