Hello moogvoyager, 

That's correct, we apply the Sympathetic String calculation only to the close mics. 

Best, 
Paul

3 years since this thread started and all we got were a few vague answers like "we might look into it if time permits"(paraphrased), along with questionable marketing pitches like "buy nevertheless, these are great pianos, believe me"(paraphrased), in spite of the fact that these are by far the most expensive VSTi pianos on the market.

The "Sympathetic" widget on that interface should either be removed, or renamed to something like "Mud Slider" or "This will do something(?) to the sound that you won't like". If it's left as it is it's simply misleading advertising.

Let me recap:

- No Sympathetic resonance

- No silent key

- No velocity curve control (Correction: no yet tested, but seems to've been implemented in March 2021)

- Inconsistent panning on quite a few microphones, on all pianos (I haven't heard the new 280VC)

- Unnaturally short and synthetic sounding note decay which, along with the lack of sympathetic resonance, considerably diminishes the qualities that these pianos otherwise do have.

- How about una corda samples?

How come most $99-$200 pianos on the market have had most if not all these things from day one, and VSL refuses to implement them in VSTis that cost 3-4 times as much, 3 years after inception, one piano after another with the same limitations as the previous one? Seriously, what is this?

Until I see a major shift in the way VSL is doing business, I'm out.

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the heads-up regarding the velocity curve editor. I saw a new version was released in March, but I could not find a changelog anywhere, so I did not bother downloading it.

Indeed I missed this release simply because there was no email notification and after months of hoping for updates that just wouldn't come, I stopped visiting the VSL website.

Anyway, I'll edit my post.

Kind regards

Originally Posted by: cuzzinlouie

...How come most $99-$200 pianos on the market have had most if not all these things from day one, and VSL refuses to implement them in VSTis that cost 3-4 times as much, 3 years after inception, one piano after another with the same limitations as the previous one? Seriously, what is this?

Until I see a major shift in the way VSL is doing business, I'm out.

Do these $99-$200 virtual pianos sound better than VSL's offerings? If so, then why are you complaining? I would imagine you would be grateful to find something you like at a lower price. Do VSL's offerings (with their limitations) sound better than the $99-$200 virtual pianos? if so, then why are you complaining? I would imagine that you would be grateful to have a product that exceeds all others. 

Personally, I'm grateful there are so many options to choose from that can inspire and enhance my playing experience. Nobody is forcing me to buy VSL products. It's the choice I'm making because I like them the best. Hopefully, you'll find satisfaction with whatever product you choose to use. 

God Bless,

David

Originally Posted by: cuzzinlouie

Why do I complain? For the same reason you complain about me complaining. It's a method of expressing disagreement with something that's been said or done.

Did I complain about you? Did I express annoyance or dissatisfaction with your comments? No, I didn't. I simply inquired why you were complaining so that I might better understand your feelings on the matter. Your response has not helped me to better understand your perspective. 

There is a difference between criticism and suggestions on improvements. I was interested to see if I could find justification in your criticism of VSL's "business" and "advertisement" practices. So far, I can't. 

God Bless,

David

Originally Posted by: cuzzinlouie

Do you at least agree that if nobody is saying anything, no improvement will ever be made? If after +-3 years since release, bullet-pointing the features that are incomplete, nonexistent or broken are considered an invalid complaint, I'd like to know why.

I think it's appropriate to make suggestions. The recent Synchron Piano software update is evidence that VSL listens to suggestions and works to improve their products. What I would like to see is the Synchron Piano software be able to support multi-threading so that it performs better with multiple mics. I'd also like to see a record feature implemented. I would think that VSL would appreciate customer feedback like that. 

However, I'm not inclined to question their ethics if they don't implement my suggestions. VSL is the only virtual piano company I'm aware of that gives a full refund if you're not satisfied with their product after you buy it. In this context, I think that the refund policy negates the accusation regarding "questionable marketing pitches" and "misleading advertising." That's why I'm finding it difficult  to see justification in your criticism of VSL. 

God Bless,

David

Originally Posted by: cuzzinlouie

... and that the silent key is also a lost cause, even after the addition of the long awaited velocity curve. If the lower left corner represents 0 velocity and 0 gain, why on earth can't we use it to mimic a silent key? How hard can it be to not trigger any sound if velocity stays below a certain threshold?

While I haven't needed a silent key feature, I have also wondered the same thing. 

Thank you for taking the time to engage more on this topic.

God Bless,

David

Hi Paul,

With all due respect, but this is just more of the same.

Originally Posted by: Paul

...unfortunately we didn't find the time to integrate a useful "silent key" option.

A useful silent key? What would be a less useful one? We're not talking about complex algos here which can yield different results, or task the CPU differently, but about something as simple as: if velocity < pppp return None. The system already knows the velocity, and None, 0, or NULL means in this case literally 0 gain or simply "no sound".

Even without this, we should still be able to mimic it via the velocity curve editor now that we have it, but for some reason it seems that either a) code was written specifically to not allow it or b) the weighting curve is mapped between ppp and fff, instead of 0 to fff. Either way, this stuff would be absolutely trivial for a developer to fix.

Originally Posted by: Paul

Regarding Sympathetic Resonance: There are more advanced algorithms we could apply, at a pretty high cost of CPU power.

Not sure how advanced the algos used in other VSTs are, but they sure sound ok to me, and that without the high CPU hit.

Originally Posted by: Paul

Maybe there will be a better solution available at some point.

Maybe? At some point? Who would make a better solution available?

Sorry Paul, I don't mean to be an a**, but I am a little frustrated. Moreover, I saw you guys released the new 280VC, I got curious and checked the price, and then I remembered this thread and came here to see if anything got done in the last 2-3 years.

As a result all I can say is that ... maybe ... at some point ... someone will find a better way to convince me that paying €445 for a VST piano which has the exact same limitations as the other 5 I foolishly purchased from VSL might be a good idea.

Danke fuers Zuhoehren.

Hi,

Sorry about the frustration. I get the point. 

You're asking, and I am answering, honest and friendly.

Best, 
Paul

Hi Paul,

I totally agree with the people expressing dismay regarding the sympathetic feature. It only does a little bit up to about six and then it turns to mud. Nothing like the sound of actually having the pedal depressed when a note is played.

I have a very simple solution that should use no CPU and would make me at least extremely happy. The sound with the pedal down is definitely superior. Put in an option to use the pedal down samples instead of the pedal up samples (when the pedal is up). I actually did this with the 10-year-old Imperial by means of sample robot and then the Kontakt 4 sampler. Unfortunately the process degraded the sound.

I hope VSL will take this suggestion very seriously because it would truly make these superior pianos (I have both the Bösendorfer Imperial and the Steinway).

Best, Phil