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  4. Effect of raising and pressing the sustain pedal in CFX

  • Effect of raising and pressing the sustain pedal in CFX

    V
    V

    Dear Paul,

    Some time ago, I had a long conversation with Andi, in which I criticized the fact that the sustain pedaling in Vienna Imperial had no effect in the preceding sounding notes, that is, these notes continue to sound after raising and pressing the sustain pedal. The Andi’s answer was that in real piano the previous sound is “caught” after re-pressing the sustain pedal. In my experience with real pianos, the sound “caught” after raising and pressing the sustain pedal is not total, but just some amount. Indeed, what is the sense of re-pedaling if the sound remains in its entirety? — There must have a meaningful difference, because between two successive measure sometimes there is a big change in the chord progression.

    Well, one of the reasons I bought VSL Yamaha CFX was to use the sustain pedal so that the sound after repedaling were not totally “caught”, but as I can perceive, the same “issue” persists: the sustain-pedaling has no effect in the preceding note. The only possibility to mute the preceding sound is to insert the pedal sign before the last note of the measure, so that the next note with the sustain pedal pressed is going to sound without the "accompaniment" of the notes of the previous measure. This solution, however, is not satisfactory, because the last note of the preceding measure will have a different sound. (I use CFX with Sibelius.)

    Earlier, I suggested that Vienna Imperial had a parameter in which the user could set the amount of remaining sound after raising and pressing the sustain pedal, and I make this suggestion once more.

    Thanks for your attention.

    All the best,

    Verlaine
  • M
    M

    Are you suggesting like on an actual acoustic piano, when a chord is hold and then the damper is depressed, due the release of the damper on all the strings, the overall sound should become more resonant (?)

     

    In fact, some hybrid pianos (same brand as the CFX) are implemented with such feature called VRM (Virtual Resonance Modeling) technology (“Since instantaneous resonance is made at the moment according to the state of the keyboard or pedal, you can vary the sound expressively by changing the timing of your pressing the keys, and the timing and depth of your pressing the pedal”.)

     

    The modeling has two parameters:

    Damper Resonance Depth (adjust how much damper resonance is included in the modeling when the damper is pressed), and String Resonance Depth (adjust how much string resonance in the modeling when a key is pressed).

    It will be phenomenal if Synchron Piano would have a similar feature!!!
  • V
    V

    No, my point is much simpler.

    When the keys corresponding to the last notes of a measure with the sustain pedal are pressed, the pianist releases them and raises the pedal to stop the sound, so that the next measure, written on the basis of another chord, can sound without the interference of notes of the previous measure. In the virtualYamaha CFX, raising and pressing the sustain pedal again does not interrupt the sounds of the previous measure, such as if the pedal had not been raised at all between one measure and the next.
  • stephen limbaughS
    stephen limbaughS

    This sounds like an issue in that notation problem... 
  • M
    M

    Maybe you could try this "Pedal Lines" plug-in for Sibelius:
    http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins/index.html?plugin=141
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hello Verlaine!

    If you want the pedal to go up and down again with enough time between to stop the strings from ringing, you have to place the pedal up and down symbols accordingly in Sibelius. If you don't want these symbols in your score, you can also work with CC64 MIDI commands. They are hidden by default. In Sibelius they have the following syntax:
    ~C64,0 for pedal up
    ~C64,127 for pedal down.

    Best regards,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • V
    V

    Hi Andi,

    thank you for engaging on this topic as in our previous discussion.

    As I told you that time, the trouble I indicate does not depend on the distance between the pedal signs up and down. If there is a V7 chord played with pedal down on the last beat of a measure, for example, then it does not matter where you place the pedal up sign: if the first note of the next measure has a pedal down sign, the previous V7 chord sound is going to persist over the next measure, merging with an VI chord, for example, what is not desirable. As you said, the V7 chord notes are “caught”, but the point is that they are caught in its entirety, so that a score written so:

    Ped__________________|  Ped___________________| Ped____________________|

    sounds exactly the same as:

    Ped____________________________________________________________________|

    As I told before, the only way to prevent the sound of the previous measure ringing on the next one — in Vienna Imperial and Yamaha CFX — is playing the notes of the last beat without the pedal down sign, but this makes their  sound too much different from the previous and subsequent notes.

    All the best,

    Verlaine
  • M
    M

    I think Andi understood your problem.

    He was suggesting you could add the MIDI events (~C64,0) and then (~C64,127) as technique text to handle re-pedaling instead of the pedal line. The plug-in I suggested earlier also does that after you input the MIDI events.

    If you are not sure how to enter MIDI events as technique test in Sibelius, you could search for tutorials over the Internet.
  • V
    V

    mobileavatar, the behavior of Vienna Imperial and Yamaha CFX is not different with midi events or notation signs, because the effect in the Synchron or VI software is the same: the instance of the virtual instrument is receiving a CC command, be it a pedal sign or a CC code.
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hello Verlaine!

    Notes in Sibelius get played (pressed) as long as the note value suggests. For a piano that means that the keys will usually stay pressed until the next note or chord. When there is a pedal symbol for the next note or chord this means that there is no time for the previous note to fade away and it will be caught by the pedal with the volume that it just had. To avoid that you can shorten playback note lengths with the Sibelius Inspector (Live duration).

    Best,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • V
    V

    Hi Andi,

    that works fine!! In a 80 ppm, it's enough to set a quarter-note duration to 240 and to put the pedal up sign right after the note. It makes the final sound very good, but since we always use a certain amount of reverb, the global result is even better.

    Thank you very much!

    All the best,

    Verlaine