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CHANGE IN VSL'S DIRECTION ?
Last post Wed, Sep 05 2018 by Eptesicus, 81 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Jun 04 2018 18:12
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

Well I don't mean that really - I think Synchron will be a great library overall.  But the dry/MIR instrument approach should continue and not be viewed as "old" when it certainly isn't.  

Posted on Tue, Jun 05 2018 00:23
by C.B.
Joined on Wed, Aug 11 2010, Quebec Canada, Posts 129

I agree with Willian too. I hope VSL stay focus as possible on raw instruments instead of "instant orchestration libraries". 

 

I bought Synchron Strings last fall and Synchron FX last week and I enjoy both. But the so-called "old" strings librairies remains by far my favourites. I'm looking forward to trying the Syncron player on these dry instruments. Maybe in 2018? I'm crossing my fingers.

 

Claude B.

C.B.
Posted on Tue, Jun 05 2018 00:56
by ZWaves
Joined on Mon, Dec 18 2017, Los Angeles, Ca, Posts 63

Originally Posted by: C.B. Go to Quoted Post

I agree with Willian too. I hope VSL stay focus as possible on raw instruments instead of "instant orchestration libraries". 

 

I bought Synchron Strings last fall and Synchron FX last week and I enjoy both. But the so-called "old" strings librairies remains by far my favourites. I'm looking forward to trying the Syncron player on these dry instruments. Maybe in 2018? I'm crossing my fingers.

 

Claude B.

I don't think you could play the "Classic" ( I call them that way, not "legacy" nor "old" ) libraries on the new Syncrhon Player, becuase it requires completely different file type to load the samples.

Special Edition Complete (Vols.1-4), SYNCHRON-ized SE Bundle (Vols.1-4)
Single Instruments, Vienna Ensemble Pro, VI Pro 2, MIR Pro, MIRx Bundle
Cubase Pro, Logic Pro X, Pro Tools, Notion
macOS 10.15.7, Mac mini 6-Core i7, 64GB RAM
Posted on Wed, Jun 06 2018 04:09
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

Yeah it would be a crying shame if VSL were to retire the Silent Stage..  Something tells me that that's not going to be the case though. I think they're goiing to concentrate on the Synchron series probably for the next year or two so that they can get up to speed with the competition like Eastwest in the "baked in reverb" arena.  Then they might record "Historic Strings" back on the silent stage to continue that line of sample libraries.  Who knows.

However, I would be very worried if they were to all of a sudden come out with a Synchron series Boys' Choir.  why not do a version on the silent stage? 

William mentioned something about FX Strings that troubled me and that is this Symphobia (or whatever it's called) idea of "instant creativity."  For me anyway, the creative process is an evolutionary one that requires a lot of blood sweat and tears. 

Unfortunately, you cannot ignore the "invisible hand" of market forces and it just seems that consumers of music media today want instant gratification and they want everything right now.  It is for this very reason I stopped working for commissions.  I would get calls from prospective clients saying, "Hey I need a big orchestrated something or other and I need it yesterday what can you do for me?"  I would then point them to something in my pre-recorded library and say you might find something in there.  "No you don't undestand.  I need something original but It's just that I need it fast."  There's nothing original about block chords, arpegiated patterns and cliched orchestral overtones but if that's what you want maybe I can slap something together for you in about five minuttes while I'm sitting on the crapper. The ironic thing was, I charged ten times more than what that garbage was worth but because they wanted it fast..

Sorry. I think maybe I'm going off on a tangent.

Back to the point..

Unless I've completely misunderstood the whole point of Synchron, VSL has basically eliminated the step of fabricating a sonic environment so you can get the project out that much faster.  If that's what you need then okay but I'd rather shed some blood sweat and tears.  And Im sorry but I don't buy the notion that orchestral samples don't sound realistic unless they were recorded in a symphony hall with all the lush reverb that goes along with it.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Thu, Jun 07 2018 18:11
by jhonny.eriksson
Joined on Mon, Jun 21 2010, Sweden, Posts 69

My thoughts exactly... It used to sound like this: "pre-recorded reverb (like East West) is old news; static, limited and unoriginal. VSL has revolutionized virtual orchestration by recording it completely dry!"
And with the Synchron-lineup it's completely the other way around :P Very strange indeed... Obviously the quality delivered by VSL is uncontested. But I got into VSL because it was recorded dry, in superb resolution. I will not convert to Synchron, i rather make the Synchron sound myself using a mix of instruments and MIR. That way i can truly make my own sound.

Posted on Thu, Jun 07 2018 19:27
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

I think it's odd what people are making out of this. Almost a quasi-religious discussion. Even more so considering the fact that the Synchron series so far has been still very much in line with VSLs "philosophy". Some people act as if the Synchron Strings were swimming in a sea of reverb and had this totally distinct, immutable sound, like it came straight out of a Hollywood movie.

Quite the opposite is true. SyS might be the driest "wet" library out there. It's not at all comparable to the Spitfire stuff or whatever. It has 100% VSL character - pristine, flexible, more "classical" - and has such a subtle reverb tail that would hardly get in the way of anything you might want to do. And the multi-mic setup is exactly what you need for the same flexibility you always had with VSL. If you need a closer, drier sound - what's the problem? Dial in the mics accordingly! It's easier and faster done than previously.

 The most notable change is that due to the realistic spatial depth, the samples simply sound more natural and "real" than the older libraries.

 It seems to me that some of the notions expressed here have more to do with tribal instincts and "choosing sides" than with using one's ears.

Posted on Thu, Jun 07 2018 19:55
by jhonny.eriksson
Joined on Mon, Jun 21 2010, Sweden, Posts 69

Originally Posted by: JimmyHellfire Go to Quoted Post

I think it's odd what people are making out of this. Almost a quasi-religious discussion. Even more so considering the fact that the Synchron series so far has been still very much in line with VSLs "philosophy". Some people act as if the Synchron Strings were swimming in a sea of reverb and had this totally distinct, immutable sound, like it came straight out of a Hollywood movie.

Quite the opposite is true. SyS might be the driest "wet" library out there. It's not at all comparable to the Spitfire stuff or whatever. It has 100% VSL character - pristine, flexible, more "classical" - and has such a subtle reverb tail that would hardly get in the way of anything you might want to do. And the multi-mic setup is exactly what you need for the same flexibility you always had with VSL. If you need a closer, drier sound - what's the problem? Dial in the mics accordingly! It's easier and faster done than previously.

 The most notable change is that due to the realistic spatial depth, the samples simply sound more natural and "real" than the older libraries.

 It seems to me that some of the notions expressed here have more to do with tribal instincts and "choosing sides" than with using one's ears.

I agree with you too. For me it's not black and white obviously. I just think that the switch in marketing and what made VSL unique from the get go is something that some of us will need to get used to.

I don’t wish to sound anything like a critic when I talk about VSL. These libraries have changed my life, really. And I am so grateful that VSL is continuing to evolve and release new products. I've gotten every penny I've invested worth and I bought the SYS FX1 on the day it was released. When the SYS Steinway is released I intend to get that one as well, no matter the cost or how happy I am with the Bosendorfer (playing a Steinway in my living room... just the thought).

It’s just the strings… they made the Dimension, Orchestral and the rest so got damn good that for now, SYS Strings is just an abundance (for me). I am still learning. And thank god (VSL) for that.

Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 02:55
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

"The most notable change is that due to the realistic spatial depth, the samples simply sound more natural and "real" than the older libraries." - Jimmy Hellfire

That is totally false.  Apparently, you've never heard MIR.   Or have you and you are tone-deaf? You are saying MIR has no realism or spatial depth? 

" I think it's odd what people are making out of this. Almost a quasi-religious discussion. "  JimmyHellfire

What? Quasi religious?  That is ridiculous.  It is simply some statements posted here honestly by users.

" It seems to me that some of the notions expressed here have more to do with tribal instincts and "choosing sides" than with using one's ears." - JimmyHellfire

That is again B.S. - I have no "side."  I  always use my ears and am simply pointing out some aspects of the libraries.

I find this weird - this person JimmyHellfire who never posts any music previously totally contradcited me when I was praising Synchron Strings. Now he contradicts me when I say something contrary to that previous post. Even though I have repeatedly said Synchron is a great library.  But having first started using VSL in 2003 and doing a number of their demos here, I have really loved the instruments they created.  To you apparently though, everything is just fodder for your posts here, scoring points here and there.  

BTW -  "JimmyHellfire"  - where is your music?  I have never heard one note you ever did.  All you do is post obnoxious comments and contradictions of people.  But what music do you actually do?  Post one piece of music, and if it is good, I will shut up.  You can hear my stuff anytime - right here in the VSL demos, at Production Music Online, on my website, Amazon, etc.    But I am very interested to hear what music you actually do when not contradicting people here on the VSL Forum.  

WILLIAM KERSTEN

www.williamkersten.com

Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 04:18
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

It's always the same with Billy Baloney.

Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 19:20
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

And the same with you - no music, just hot air.  I asked you this before and you were too scared to put anything up.  You still are.  

Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 20:36
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

Well since you really want to know, I'm gonna explaint it to you William, but don't cry afterwards.

I'd never lower myself to playing that particular game with you, because it's nonsensical, anti-intellectual and an unsavory exercise in disingenuousness.

The finer points:

1) We're talking primarily technical details here. Whether you'd like my style of writing, my mockups or whatever does not play any functional role in this at all. What you're doing is a classic example of trying to discredit the person and what they do because you don't have jack to say regarding the actual matter. You're merely trying to feel better about yourself by childishly dragging the discussion down to a level you're fully certain that nobody will follow you to, because they're smarter than that and you're 100% aware. You're pulling up a smokescreen of condescending nonsense to hide behind.

2) Therefore, it is fully clear and inevitable that I could present to you the most magnificent music thinkable, but your wounded ego would find a way to drag it down because there's no other way. You're diverting the topic to a different level, that's the whole point of your query and there's no possibility or sense in you doing anything else than that.

3) I don't have to vindicate myself in front of some affronted and bellicose stranger, and most certainly not by his own boorish and futile criteria.

4) Needlees to say, I'm sure I'd find my music way more colorful, spirited and enjoyable than yours, so explain to me again what's in there for me?

5) Finally, in the usual egocentric fashion, you managed to spin what I wrote as something that apparently is solely tailored to aggravate, challenge and contradict you and whatever you may think or say. Truth be told, I wasn't even thinking of you at all when I made the post in question. But your reaction is normal for people who are in that certain headspace where they feel that others are doing things just to spite them. It's all about them. Everyone's against them, they're the center of the world with all their anguish.

Settle down, William! Please. We can talk about a libraries and stuff without acting up.

Posted on Fri, Jun 08 2018 21:16
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

And you call me sarcastic - that is amusing.  And you're still wrong - I would totally respect you if you actually posted some music and maybe I would like it.  I don't try to hate anybody's creative work   I like hearing new stuff and comment positively on composer's work - something you never do.  And you never post any music.   I don't trust people here who never post any music.  

Posted on Sat, Jun 09 2018 04:04
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

Well who cares? That's the whole point. You're like the weird old dude that patrols and polices the neighborhood. Reprimanding people who park their car in a way he doesn't like, screaming at kids who ride their bikes on the sidewalk. Everyone knows him, they all know he's a crank, nobody cares. I know it's hard to imagine, but it's not about you. Enough with your clownery.

Posted on Sat, Jun 09 2018 08:25
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7784

Dear Forum-Members,

I think that everything that had to be said is said by now - can we please bring this thread back to more friendly and cooperative ground?

Thanks a lot. 

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Jun 09 2018 14:50
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 558

With regard to music bringing a lot of opinions to the floor, with few people showcasing what they themselves can achieve, I don't find it unreasonable to suggest that backing up your thoughts and criticisms with evidence of your own facility with sample libraries is such a bad thing.

Would you hire a 400 pound couch potato to be a personal trainer?

Would you cross a bridge designed by someone whose engineer training was comprised of watching "the greatest bridges in the world" videos on youtube?

Would you trust a pharmacist who told you the "pink pills are for girls and the blue pills are for boys."

Basically, what I'm saying is that, if you scour interet forums on music, the sheer number of opinions by so many anonymous individuals does require a way to ascertain the value of said opinion.  In any other field, asking an individual for their credentials, experiences, and evidence of their accomplishments is perfectly normal.  Ask a musician to showcase their musical output, and they suddenly get offended, call others names, and/or suggest that they're a snob/snooty, etc.  At this point, I would vouch for the opinion on a library by one competent (as in their music illustrates their competence) individual over a hundred anonymous points of view from those who are too afraid to put their stuff out there for scrutiny.

Just my opinion, and no, I'm not exclusively suggesting that you can't have an opinion without doing something yourself, just that backing up your credentials with evidence of your own achievement will go further to reinforcing your point of view.

Really, just to drive the point home:  would you buy any library by any developer without demos of the sounds?  Why then is it so offensive to ask for evidence of your own musical output to determine the value of your opinion, even if the individual assessing that value is doing so purely in a subjective way?

Posted on Sat, Jun 09 2018 16:58
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 311

Originally Posted by: Acclarion Go to Quoted Post

With regard to music bringing a lot of opinions to the floor, with few people showcasing what they themselves can achieve, I don't find it unreasonable to suggest that backing up your thoughts and criticisms with evidence of your own facility with sample libraries is such a bad thing.

...

Really, just to drive the point home:  would you buy any library by any developer without demos of the sounds?  Why then is it so offensive to ask for evidence of your own musical output to determine the value of your opinion, even if the individual assessing that value is doing so purely in a subjective way?

Dear member, you should be right in principle. I'm less positive than you, because we are in a very well known "grey area" between professionalism and social network. I've been accused by the same guy(s), and I answered posting several samples and precise argumentations, and... you guess what? surprise surprise... no comment... no more talk-show. Unfortunately here it's about trollish attitude and disturbed social behaviour, not about facts. So I simply ignore any useless discussion and provocation, and focus on constructive and technical topics.

Posted on Sat, Jun 09 2018 16:59
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 311

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Dear Forum-Members,

I think that everything that had to be said is said by now - can we please bring this thread back to more friendly and cooperative ground?

Thanks a lot. 

Words of wisdom, I quote.

Posted on Sat, Jun 09 2018 19:55
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

If you're referring to me I never heard any samples from you.  I would be quite interested in hearing them.  Where are they? 

Posted on Sat, Jun 09 2018 20:04
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

Also, I am not the one giving a "talk show" - nor am I a troll.  By definition that includes anonymity and furtiveness.  I am definitely not those as you can visit my demos here any time, or my website which I've posted.  You can also read about me on Production Music OnlineCD Baby, buy stuff on AmazonSMP Press or buy the Bluray of my last film "Disembodied" here - all scored with VSL.     Also you can pm me anytime no problem.   Just don't call me "trollish."  And please post the link for those samples.   

WILLIAM KERSTEN

www.williamkersten.com

Posted on Sun, Jun 10 2018 05:36
by mobileavatar
Joined on Mon, Jul 25 2011, Posts 64

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Dear Forum-Members,

I think that everything that had to be said is said by now - can we please bring this thread back to more friendly and cooperative ground?

Thanks a lot. 

Words of wisdom, I quote.

But if everytime VSL ignores important questions we asked (e.g. whether the new player would improve the legato), VSL basically just wants silence, not cooperation.

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