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Synchron-Demo Bach-Mangiagalli E-Partita for Orchestra
Last post Wed, Jul 04 2018 by MMKA, 12 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Jul 02 2018 00:38
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1738

Here is my first Synchron-Demo in different versions.
The E-Partita from Bach-arr. by R. Mangiagalli

A1) Synchron Strings 1: 60% Roomsound + 100% Mid + Close 60% 
B1Synchron Strings 1: 60% Roomsound + 100% Mid + Close 60% + a bit tail 
C1Synchron Strings 1: 60% Roomsound + 100% Mid + Close 60% + a bit tail + Solo Strings (just a little)

New on the 4th of July: Another Mix within the Player

A2) Synchron Strings 1: Room100% + Mid 50% + Main 100%  
B2) Synchron Strings 1: Room100% + Mid 50% + Main 100% + a bit tail  

B3) Synchron Strings 1: Room100% + Mid 50% + Main 100% + more tail  
C2) Synchron Strings 1: Room100% + Mid 50% + Main 100% + a bit tail + Solo Strings (just a little)


As I noted in another post, I see great potential for this library when it comes to bringing powerstrings to the start. It is probably optimally used for modern large-scale productions. A small baroque cast is better filled with the dimension or chamber strings.
Therefore, I mastered the whole thing a bit on "pressure". I did not use any effect in the individual string tracks.
On the contrary: I even switched off most of the EQs in the Synchronplayer ... So you listen to pretty much Synchron Strings 1 (+ Solo Violins). Nevertheless, I still used a little "mastering know how" to get the best possible end product.

I am particularly impressed by the deep instruments. Now we have violas that can also assert themselves in large orchestras. The cellos sound very natural. Both instruments have a round, warm sound. And last but not least The bass foundation is phenomenal. Because I used a tail that also fades low frequencies, I had to reduce the bass even a bit with a dynamic EQ ...

Next demo I will try the "Imperial Waltz" to play. Quite a different kind of music. There xVel will come into play ... I'm curious myself ... later in July.


Have fun
Beat


PS You will find this Partita in the VSL-demos. I did it once (2003/4). It was a Mix with (between) the Orchestra Library and the Solo-Library... Now in a new version. above...

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Mon, Jul 02 2018 00:51
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5640

That is fabulous,  such a beautiful clear sound with so much detail.  It makes one stop listening to samples and just listen to Bach. I heard the solo combo also and it is great how they add to the Synchrons that soloistic texture.  Also very desirable that one can add those libraries to the new one.   This is beautifully done by the master Beat Kaufmann and reveals the complex, highly detailed nature of the instruments.  This is obviously going to become one of the important demos of this great new library.  

Posted on Mon, Jul 02 2018 07:59
by mh-7635
Joined on Wed, Aug 04 2004, Posts 192

Hi Beat,

At last, a demo that shows off a positive side of Synchron Strings. I think a lot of us agree that the shorts are great (pizz too, but I felt they poked out a bit too much in your mix - a minor nitpick, sorry).

To you Beat or VSL, how about an overtly legato demo, say the Barber Adagio which is not difficult to input notewise and apart from the legato, would also highlight the emotional intensity inherent in the samples and the breadth of the dynamics? 

Great sound all the same Beat and nice programming.

Posted on Mon, Jul 02 2018 11:18
by JimmyHellfire
Joined on Tue, Dec 24 2013, Posts 335

I think it sounds vey good. Highlights the strengths of the library. It's perhaps a bit too clean and perfect for my personal taste, but that can be adjusted should one feel the need in their own productions. I think the samples sound very good and the mockup is expertly done.

At the same time, it also kind of shows why VSL often gets the "synthy demos" rep. I think that this kind of music still shows the limitations of sampling. This kind of dense, intricate and busy material more quickly results in that certain "stacked MIDI", organ-like sound. There's some of that here as well, but overall for samples I think it's on a high level and some other libraries would completely fall apart in the same situation.

Traditionally, one could always find more baroque and classical adaptations on the VSL website than in the demo sections of other companies, who mostly make sure to showcase pieces that were specifically written to the samples in order to show the library in its best light. I think sometimes people hear a more complex piece of music done with VSL and think it sounds terribly synthy compared to what they heard from some other library, but forget that they never heard that other library attempting the same piece of music.

Posted on Mon, Jul 02 2018 11:43
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Hi Beat thank you for your interesting experiments with your former Cube(?)-Demo.

Like you I am so happy about the anbility of the dimensionstrings to meet the demands of modern Baroqu-interpretation, that I didn't dare to use the Synchron Strings I for Baroque-music.

The more interesting are your "remix" experiments. I think already "b" indicated that Synchron Strings are even in this Style quite useable as soon "a bit Tail" is added. Meanwhile the Synchron-Stage adds a lot possible realworld ambience (you currently seem not yet to included in your mix, it is still a "studio" and may be not as dry as the silent stage but in opposite to other competitors with multimicrophoen samplsets still so clear and transparent, that the final mix allows to add as you did "a bit tail" as they would presumably likewise do with every Orchestra recording in the same studio. 

So if you ask me imho the most impressive difference in respect to realism I hear between a and b.

I am actually not sure if I would tend to combine Synchron and VI-Libraries more than absolutly necessary, since as some other noticed elsewhere in this Forum, one of the great advantages of the Synchron-Libraries seem to be, that they fit so much better together in the mix, than any previous library did befor. In short to do what you reasonable did with combining Solo and Section-Samplesets, I hope we will sooner or later will get also Synchron Firstchair/Solostrings and maybe even other section sizes to do excactly what you did with combining Synchron with the previous Solostrings.

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Mon, Jul 02 2018 11:46
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Göttingen, Posts 956

Originally Posted by: JimmyHellfire Go to Quoted Post

I think sometimes people hear a more complex piece of music done with VSL and think it sounds terribly synthy compared to what they heard from some other library, but forget that they never heard that other library attempting the same piece of music.

You've got it

http://libraries.resampled.de/index.php
four parallel interpretations of ambitious classical scores with up to twelve different Libraries

http://beethoven.resampled.de
currently the first four Symphonies of L.v.Beethoven completly recorded with the finest available orchestra samplelibraries (BBCSO, SSO, STO)

http://klassik-resampled.de
Currently 4330 mp3 with more than a whole Week (=more than 8 Days /=nearly 200 hours) of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries
Posted on Mon, Jul 02 2018 20:46
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1738

Hi all
Thanks for the positive and kind feedback.

Hi mh-7635
Yes, the demo music has a few pinpricks. But the demo does not claim to be perfect. For the last 20% perfection you have to spend 80% of the time. Unfortunately, I do not have them. I also used not a lot of Dekka Tree so the Strings sound maybe a little too close specially for those who are normally using MIR.

Those results sound mostly too distant in my mind. So tastes are different...

Demo with a different style of music - Barber-Adagio?
For a piece of music to sound great, you should like the music itself. Since I was able to record a few Barber-Adagio arrangements with Brass, the string version has lost its appeal a bit to me.
As indicated above, I want to try it with a waltz - the Kaiserwalzer or Viennese Blood. Such a demo does not exist yet. That's why this appeals to me more than just filling in the 100th Barber-Adagio version. One more thing: simply that's just the notes. If you have ever produced a slow piece, then you know how difficult it is to bring life into the dead long-sounding samples samples.

The Strauss Waltzes need the size of a symphony orchestra. Exactly what the Synchron Strings are made for. We want to see how they can solve the job.

About demos from other libraries
Many other libraries come only
with the dramatically and rhythmically played staccato throughout the orchestra, just as today obviously all film music has to sound. At least that's what the "Synchron Strings" can do just as well.

BTW: An orchestral library from Steinberg has just come out. When you listen to the first 3 demos: once more Staccato-film-music as I mentioned above... Furthermore, I believe that you have to see the current string library as part of the whole symphony orchestra. It will definitely do a well job. For more expression - where you can hear the fingers tapping - VSL will surely deliver synchron -solo, -dimension or as they will be called then.

All the best and later in July - with a walz

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Mon, Jul 02 2018 21:30
by Veola
Joined on Thu, Jun 30 2016, Posts 15
Fab programming, great job! But I recommend everyone to listen to your 2003 demo in Orchestral Strings I. That's beautiful. Much more realistic and balanced. The Synchron version sounds like a synth. No comparison.
VSL, you have messed it up.
Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2018 16:52
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 313

I have to agree that the old version sounds way more realistic and convincing.

Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2018 18:00
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12791

Hi, 

FIrst of all: Thanks, Beat!

I think that this is very much a mixing question. I assume that the demo was rendered with the Room-Mix Presets, and I'd be very interested to see which other impressions can be achieved with a different mixing approach.

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Jul 03 2018 23:50
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1738

Thanks Paul

I just added another Playermix in my starting text.

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Wed, Jul 04 2018 02:30
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 439

C, beautiful! Thanks Beat!

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