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Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 09:50
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 899

When I conceived 5 Years ago for the first time my Articulation-Dimension-Concept based on the fact, that I was looking for complexity-reduction of the vast superpackage-Variety with unifying the usage of all different Libraries and thus only controling the changes as nearly independent "dimensions". One Aspect which is pretty self evident, if you consider the variety of different sectionsizes the Superpackage provide for instance for the String libraries, made me suggest to keep the different Sectionsizes likwise chosable in the sam player Just by changing one Dimension/CC/ or Keyswitch. Technically this is theoretically pretty easy in the new Synchronplayer. If I would use the very first "Dimension" where one currently can chose different type range of Velocity-Layer for chosing different Sectionsizes what means currently Synchronized-Chamber or Synchron-Strings. That would allow me for instance to switch for one track seemlessly if I would like to hear a full Section, or a reduced chamber-String-Sectionsize. Since the other Articulations should be organized quite similar, that should make not that much more work, than swiching between the two options.

My Question/Suggestion, could you provide either

- Presets combining likewise Chamber and Synchron-Strings instead different kinds of Velocity-ranges,

- or provide a possibility to copy and past whole subtrees of a presets to allow us to combine both sections likewise without to much fiddeling around with each single patch of the large and complex Synchron-presets

Dont remain a perpetual nagging 2-minutes-Demo-"wanna be artist".
Better let us hear what you and good Samplelibraries like VSL are realy able to:

http://klassik-resampled.de ...more than 3400 mp3 with 161 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

You want to know how Synchron Strings could sound in real music?
http://resampled.de/synchron
...40 mp3 with more than three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th and 20th century produced with Synchron Strings.
Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 11:03
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 193

 

It's a nice idea, but Steffen, you should always remember that the player is not only acting as a control pannel to click and switch, but also managing the "load into memory and manage playback streaming" function.

Then the way the player works is to avoid loading into memory unused samples because it takes time and resources. This lead time and the dimension of the lybraries you are talking about simply make your request at the actual status of the technology, hard to be effective from a practical point of view.

Still you can make it anyway, if you can afford the workload, with your DAW automation very easily (that's what I do for instance), managing 2 instances in parallel.

Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 11:33
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 899

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post

This lead time and the dimension of the lybraries you are talking about simply make your request at the actual status of the technology, hard to be effective from a practical point of view.

Of course not at all.

1) I already have had since 5 Years in my host (64GB-Ram) all available Stringlibraries of the Superpackage (sometimes even plus all sections of the Spitfire Orchestra which I finally didn't use that much to be necessary) stack together in likewise with my own Articulation-Concept organized VI-Presets and do work with them all the years already very convenient with comparable own Articulation-Dimension-presets for all Brass and Wood-Libraries altogether loaded and used without the necessity for disabling any cell of them at any time. (The two hour Gloria-Symphony was done that way  )

2) I knew I would need a new Slave for Synchron. But with the full Synchron Stringsections with all Velocities and all Microphone Positions I stil have half of my RAM (128GB) free for more. And you know that the Synchronized Libraries do need only a fraction of what Synchron does, so I see currently no problem to stack them without any hardware shortcoming.

It would just be a great help if I must not again draw each single patch in each single cell, but could either use a prepared Preset, or copy the whole Subtree and paste it in one position of my first Synchron-Preset-Dimension, where currently the different amounts of available Velocitiies are chosable.

Dont remain a perpetual nagging 2-minutes-Demo-"wanna be artist".
Better let us hear what you and good Samplelibraries like VSL are realy able to:

http://klassik-resampled.de ...more than 3400 mp3 with 161 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

You want to know how Synchron Strings could sound in real music?
http://resampled.de/synchron
...40 mp3 with more than three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th and 20th century produced with Synchron Strings.
Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 12:14
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 193

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Of course not at all.

Of course you didn't get the point.

If you are expert of hardware and processing maybe because you don't care, if you are not maybe because you don't know. Anyway it's not about "amount of RAM" but also about speed of loading, streaming channels etc. Happy to know you can afford expensive gear and have plenty of time when you open and load your projects. Don't think your very personal situation and opinion is depicting the market, by the way, that should be a bit selfish...

Anyway, noting against you, I respect your opinions and I liked to elaborate the concept, but sometime things are not available (yet) because very few people can enjoy. When they are more universal they will pop-up. Be patient and you will be satisfied sooner or later.

Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 12:40
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 899

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Of course not at all.

Of course you didn't get the point.

I think I do. I know how tedious it can be waiting for instance for automatic backup long saving times of the project (especially when I used the Eastwest-Holywood-Series). And yes I currently did no longer load all Spitfire-Libraries parallel to all VSL, since that does still slow down the Cubase reaction a bit.

But when it comes to VSL-Libraries I haven't had definitly anything annoyingly slowed down and I always tend to keep since Years as much loaded as available. And yes even with the new Synchronstrings which are of course considerably heavier in RAM and CPU demand, there was nothing yet what makes working with them in any way inconvenient. The VSL-Player are really great and well done in this very aspect.

So it is neither unrealistic nor sefish and of course to organize Libraries of different sectionsizes in one Preset parallel as I suggested already 5 Years ago and did so all the time does not necessarily mean, that you should have all cells loaded (= enabled). So VSL still provide some options, to work like that without having the beast of Powerhouse-Hardware to come along with it.

It is just in many contextes musical reasonable to decide in certain passage to have less Violins to be heard than in others. And this is the only and most important reason that counts and makes it worth to suggest that again.

Dont remain a perpetual nagging 2-minutes-Demo-"wanna be artist".
Better let us hear what you and good Samplelibraries like VSL are realy able to:

http://klassik-resampled.de ...more than 3400 mp3 with 161 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

You want to know how Synchron Strings could sound in real music?
http://resampled.de/synchron
...40 mp3 with more than three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th and 20th century produced with Synchron Strings.
Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 16:01
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 193

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

 

I think I do. ... does not necessarily mean, that you should have all cells loaded (= enabled). So VSL still provide some options, to work like that without having the beast of Powerhouse-Hardware to come along with it.

It is just in many contextes musical reasonable to decide in certain passage to have less Violins to be heard than in others. And this is the only and most important reason that counts and makes it worth to suggest that again.

No you didn't, but it's absolutely not a problem for me. Really no need of criticism, and keep total friendship. As I wrote, I respect your opinion, even if it's clear you don't respect mine. Anyway market and performances are objective topics, and will rule with or without us.

But let me have a last comment: to support your strong opinion, you should at least read what the other write carefully and avoid contradiction, you wrote that you load everything, but then you write that you know it's not very convenient, and one can keep cells disabled... well... that was exactly my point and so finally you confirm what I wrote before... humm very confusing LOL anyway... did you notice you may copy/paste entire slots structures in Synchron Player? Well if what you look for was just a mega-setup, you may easily create your own as you did with VI.

Now let's stop sterile polemics, and lets' make music, peace and love Steffen. 

Cheers, Fabio.

Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 19:25
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 899

Hi Fabio,

Sorry that you are that confused. There is no reason to be in any way. If there realy would be anything you dont understand, just frankly ask for.

OK you are right one can copy the root slot of the Synchron-Chamberstrings

....but than the chamberstrings run through the Synchronstrings-Mixerpresets. It seems to me as if there is no chance to use the Synchronize-Mixerpresets which are needed for the acoustic compatibility.

Therfor It seems as if there is for now no other way than seperate instances for Synchronized and Synchron-Libnraries.

Dont remain a perpetual nagging 2-minutes-Demo-"wanna be artist".
Better let us hear what you and good Samplelibraries like VSL are realy able to:

http://klassik-resampled.de ...more than 3400 mp3 with 161 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

You want to know how Synchron Strings could sound in real music?
http://resampled.de/synchron
...40 mp3 with more than three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th and 20th century produced with Synchron Strings.
Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 20:04
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 193

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Hi Fabio,

Sorry that you are that confused. There is no reason to be in any way. If there realy would be anything you dont understand, just frankly ask for.

Hi Steffen,

thank you very much for your kind offer. It's so nice from your side sharing your large knowledge, and spending time with my naive comments. I really appreciate that, but I feel so guilty abusing of your time, that I prefer to retreat in peace, and let you have time for your visionary business. I apologize for the rude attempt of expressing a different opinion, and even more for the arrogance of arguing with technical facts. I promise I won't do it again, and in the mean time, I wish you all the best.

Make music, enjoy, be happy. Ciao

Fabio

Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 20:20
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 899

Ah I finaly understand:

....you perhaps did'nt know the new "enable cell by use" function of the new Synchron-Player, which does the job (the as you might fear tedious work to enable each cell manualy) just automatically. 

(Ok and if you are able to keep the discussion subject based as I do, this would make what you are arguing much more convincing than all those senseless personal comments noboy here is realy interested in. )

Dont remain a perpetual nagging 2-minutes-Demo-"wanna be artist".
Better let us hear what you and good Samplelibraries like VSL are realy able to:

http://klassik-resampled.de ...more than 3400 mp3 with 161 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

You want to know how Synchron Strings could sound in real music?
http://resampled.de/synchron
...40 mp3 with more than three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th and 20th century produced with Synchron Strings.
Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 20:30
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 193

 

Now it's too much. Please remember that you are in a public forum. If you like personal polemics and useless offences, please do it in a private message instead. People is not interested in.

If you were interested in technology, then it was enough reading my first post, and you had saved the whole time, and the bad feelings.

Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 20:41
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 899

What exactly is your problem. If it is the subject of this thread - than discus it. If it is not - than why did you post here?

How ever what your first posting pretend is simply wrong since I have no technologic problem to work as described and my Hardware is defenitly not that unusual for VSL-User. This is a simple fact true not only for me but for all working with similar Hardware, which is not that extraordinairy difficult to afford.. A subject based discussion, should be able to respect those facts.  

Therfore once again: please keep this forum subject based. No one here understand those who don't.

Dont remain a perpetual nagging 2-minutes-Demo-"wanna be artist".
Better let us hear what you and good Samplelibraries like VSL are realy able to:

http://klassik-resampled.de ...more than 3400 mp3 with 161 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

You want to know how Synchron Strings could sound in real music?
http://resampled.de/synchron
...40 mp3 with more than three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th and 20th century produced with Synchron Strings.
Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 22:03
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 193

 

Even if there is an obvious difference between my friendly way of expressing a different personal opinion, (commenting in addition that of course I respect your nice idea), and your assertive way of declaring that your opinion is the undisputed universal true and I'm so wrong,  anyway still on subject base you didn't fix my very first objection:

- assuming you create the mega set-up: if you load the matrix empty, you can't load samples on the fly during playback. Then you have to playback to load, then wait, than playback again.

- if you save the project with active cells, every time you open it you will wait for all the samples to be loaded.

- if you save the project without the samples, then again you have to load them before playback.

Then obviously you create a big structure just to be forced to manage and optimize it every time to avoid useless loading time of non used samples, that disregarding the power of the hardware is annoying as you say.

Disregarding the power of your hardware this is something you like, some other don't, like me. Can you accept that somebody has a different need and different opinion? Is it hard to believe?

- if you want all the possible articulations and section size to be in just 1 set-up, you will end using just the sections you need for the project and lot of the other will stay unused. In my workflow I just pick the articulations I need and I create set-up on purpose.

- Still my workflow is fast and effective: I think again it's a matter of personal opinion and habits. According the music style one will reapeat the very same orchestral set-up over and over or maybe another one will use a very different one every time.

Then, again, my very personal opinion is that somebody can find the big set-up nice to have, and others will find it useless.

The only way that probably would satisfy everybody, should be to have the whole lybraries database available on the fly, always and in real time. Well I've some doubts that even your powerful hardware, and the powerful hardware of all the common VSL users is still in trouble today to provide this performance: I've the last Mac Pro 64Gb Ram, full fast SSD, and ultimate software: still loading big matrix is slow enough to irritate me.

Even more important I love fine-tuining controllers and customize the set-up to the project, then I will never feel the need of your big set-up.  Probably I'm not the only one: if your solution was so universal, why the Producers didn't make it yet? Let me know your opinion... do you know about the industry, the market, and the technology more than the Product managers and developers? Maybe this is the answer...

Anyway we are not at work. Then chatting about technology should be a pleasure: if you make it disrespectful and assertive, don't be surprised people don't enjoy, and politely, as I did, or maybe in a rude and direct way like others, will tell you that your communication style was not appreciated. Actually I didn't appreciate it at all. And as I told you, I just say goodbay and I go ahead on my road.  Now I hope it's everything clear: if it's not, doesn't matter, I'm over.

Posted on Mon, Jul 16 2018 23:29
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 899

Sorry there is not one single disrespectful personal meant word of me in this thread, while you should search maybe where exactly personal meant off topic comments are repeated again and again.

Your assumptions about loading times are just theoretical speculations, since you obviously didn't tried it. I did and without any personal comment I just can assure you, that my concept is pretty convenient to work with I did it since. more than 5 Years and managed to realise largest projects, with it, being at the same time presumably one of the most productive VSL-User with a large amount of realised VSL-Project. as it seems this is even again true for the  Synchron Strings. Thats all (beside all speculation) just a simple fact which does not leave much room for the assumption 'I would write here just based on a "strong opinion" as you seem to believe it.and would not judge the usability of my concept based on long practical expierience

Perhaps your Mac is not necessarily the best optimized System I dopnt know the reasons fo your problems.. Mine is nothing that extraordinary, just a good i7 CPU, enough RAM and enough SSD-Storage but yes neither the Loading of up to 70 GB Presets does hinder me that much as it has when I used up to nearly 60 GB Ram already 5 Years ago. I would understand your Point when it comes to Libraries by other Producers, but to my own astonishment, The VSL-Sample-Players act on my systems as smart, that i have neither a problem with loading nor with playback or rendering. I would not say that if this would not be my expierience there is nothing sefish, assertive or what ever you think you must accuse me personally, in simply sharing that expierience.And this says VSL-Player definitly allows it to work reasonably llike that. And this makes the most detailed and flexible usage of VSL even very fast and time efficient.

How ever you are right, that. the way to establish one owns workflow is always a very personal individual question. But this is of course no reason not to share concepts and Ideas. I hope you will allow yourself to take that fact as it is without any further penchant to get personal unpolite as you already did more than necessary in this thread. No one here is realy interested in such personal statements here.

Dont remain a perpetual nagging 2-minutes-Demo-"wanna be artist".
Better let us hear what you and good Samplelibraries like VSL are realy able to:

http://klassik-resampled.de ...more than 3400 mp3 with 161 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

You want to know how Synchron Strings could sound in real music?
http://resampled.de/synchron
...40 mp3 with more than three hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th and 20th century produced with Synchron Strings.
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