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Synchronized Chamber Strings
Last post Mon, Jul 22 2019 by V_ad_im, 33 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Jul 20 2018 12:44
by richhickey
Joined on Wed, Nov 01 2017, Posts 24

I must say I've found Synchronized Chamber Strings to be a very disappointing purchase, even at the 'prior owner of CS and Synchron Strings' price. When set side by side with the original chamber strings and all reverbs off, there is quite evident lack of clarity, phasing and other issues with the Synchronized samples, across all articulations.

 

Furthermore, the sustains etc sound 'blended' even when xfade is OFF in the Synchron player, which is not the case with the original chamber strings (or any VI series instruments) and the VI Pro player. It seems as if xfade only governs where the dynamic levels come from (keyboard or CC), and that mixing of samples is always occurring (i.e. synchronized CS with xfade OFF sounds like CS/VIPro with xfade ON). Perhaps this is being done to better match the greater number of dynamic levels in Synchron Strings.

 

It seems the purpose of these is to use a blended up version of chamber strings to cover up the shortcomings of Synchron Strings (another disappointing purchase). Unless you are looking to do that (which might be very effective), I do not recommend synchronized chamber strings. Stick with the original chamber strings, they're still great.

Posted on Fri, Jul 20 2018 13:36
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 262

 

I recognize my findings in your review, and I agree about the technical points you accurately described. But I've a different conclusion:

- I gave a different recommendation in my review, because I think that buying it at the CS+Synchron Strings owner price is a good idea and I recommended it as a complement and immediate fix of Synchron Strings I (to get bigger sound, to get divisi effects, to improve legato, to improve slurs and introduce portamento etc.), that as you also say is very effective.

- I don't think the blend is affecting all the articulations, but of course it's evident in the vibrato sustain, being it likely produced blending normal vibrato in low dynamics and vibrato espressivo for high dynamics. Maybe they did similar tricks to create new artificial velocity layers... But in general the recalibrated velocities in my opinion are giving uniformity and more consistency across articulations and sections (maybe it's a subjective perception, but I had the good feeling of being forced to a lower amount of editing for sound balance of phrases).

I agree VI Chamber Strings are still great: if one buys SYNCHRONized for special price it's because he owns them (and he will still love and use them).

Posted on Sat, Aug 25 2018 18:40
by asgaskins
Joined on Mon, Mar 28 2011, Posts 5

I would have to agree. This is probably one of the most dissapointing purchases I have made to date. I use the Chamber Strings and this package really is pretty shoddy compared to other libraries that I could have used.

Hopefully they can bring these up to par over time. As of now this is a library that will sit unused for me.

Posted on Sat, Aug 25 2018 23:10
by daviddln
Joined on Tue, Feb 25 2014, Posts 128

I totally disagree. The library is very good. The soft legato and soft sustain patches were not in the original library and they are fantastic. The remastered sound is a delight and honestly, if VSL hadn't told us that the library was created from the original Chamber Strings I, I would never have guessed it. They did an amazing job.

iMac 21.5, i7 4770S, 3,1 Ghz, 16 GB RAM
Komplete Kontrol S-88, Steinberg UR44
Logic Pro X, Finale 25
VI Super Package, Synchron Package, Vienna Software Package
Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 19:44
by asgaskins
Joined on Mon, Mar 28 2011, Posts 5

David,

I would love to know how you are using them as I am apparently doiong something very wrong. Compared to my original Chamber Strings they sound awful and I would be really excited to have not just thrown money away becuase I am using them improperly :-)

My current tests have been in Sibelius using the sound sets.

Cheers!

Andrew

Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 21:32
by daviddln
Joined on Tue, Feb 25 2014, Posts 128

Hi Andrew

For the short notes, I use the spiccato patch. I find it more realistic than the staccato patch, especially for the violins. For the soft passages, I use the soft legato patch with legato blur at 50-60. I really like this patch. It's very expressive. For the fast passages, I use the fast legato patch with marcato at 127 for the violins and a bit less for the cellos. For all the long notes, I use velocity crossfade for the dynamics. Hope it helps.

Kind regards,

David

iMac 21.5, i7 4770S, 3,1 Ghz, 16 GB RAM
Komplete Kontrol S-88, Steinberg UR44
Logic Pro X, Finale 25
VI Super Package, Synchron Package, Vienna Software Package
Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 21:35
by daviddln
Joined on Tue, Feb 25 2014, Posts 128

Oh, I forgot to say that for the fast passages, I don't use legato blur.

Cheers

David

iMac 21.5, i7 4770S, 3,1 Ghz, 16 GB RAM
Komplete Kontrol S-88, Steinberg UR44
Logic Pro X, Finale 25
VI Super Package, Synchron Package, Vienna Software Package
Posted on Fri, Sep 07 2018 21:41
by asgaskins
Joined on Mon, Mar 28 2011, Posts 5

David,

Thank you! That is really a huge help honestly. I am going to try and apply some of these techniques over the weekend and re-work my settings.

Cheers!
Andrew

Posted on Fri, Oct 19 2018 01:28
by V_ad_im
Joined on Fri, Feb 25 2011, Posts 127

Originally Posted by: daviddln Go to Quoted Post

For the short notes, I use the spiccato patch.



VIpro extended version spiccato has 8RR. Sy version - only 2. for additional 75 euro from extended Vi-version. WTF?

Only idea I have about Sy version is use them not instead VI-version, but both at once, as divizi

File Attachment(s):
VSLU0020chamberU0020cellosU0020VIU0020vsU0020SY.mp3 (170kb) downloaded 12 time(s).
V_ad_im attached the following image(s):
RRU0020chamberU0020strings.jpg (119kb) downloaded 2 time(s).

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Posted on Fri, Oct 19 2018 11:26
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11630

Hi, 

Maybe that's a misunderstanding. 

Both staccato and spiccato offer 8 repetitions with SYNCHRON-ized Chamber Strings. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 14:26
by V_ad_im
Joined on Fri, Feb 25 2011, Posts 127

no, you can check it - in attached mp3 notes in first half played by staccato, in second half - spiccato. Are you hear 8 RR? I am hear only 2.

File Attachment(s):
testU0020ChamberU0020SYU0020shortU0020RR.mp3 (398kb) downloaded 25 time(s).
V_ad_im attached the following image(s):
testU0020ChamberU0020SYU0020shortU0020RR.JPG (109kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

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Posted on Fri, Oct 26 2018 07:46
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11630

Hi Vadim, 

Please send me the project, I will check.

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Oct 26 2018 12:32
by V_ad_im
Joined on Fri, Feb 25 2011, Posts 127

Hi Paul,

please, find an att. files in mailbox and here

File Attachment(s):
ChamberU0020stringsU0020SYU0020testU0020RR.zip (628kb) downloaded 8 time(s).

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Posted on Sun, Oct 28 2018 08:40
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11630

Hi Vadim, 

All repetitions have a repetition threashold, which is quite short for short articulations. If you speed up your sequence, you will hear the authentic transitions between the notes. When played slower and with gaps inbetween the notes, you will trigger "only" the 2 available starting notes. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Oct 28 2018 11:21
by V_ad_im
Joined on Fri, Feb 25 2011, Posts 127

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

When played slower and with gaps inbetween the notes, you will trigger "only" the 2 available starting notes. 

Best,
Paul



Hm, it is quite strange. Yes, I noticed, that more then 2RR start to work in SY Player after 200bpm.. But:
Why if I play on ViPro version with 100bpm I can use more RR (listen att. file - I hear 4RR in this), but if I use SY Player version with 100bpm I can not to have same? why this restriction? It seems that despite the purchase of SY player, I have to use ViPro version instead..

And one more question. ViPro have a Humanize engine. Are you plan to make same for Synchron player?

File Attachment(s):
testU0020ChamberU0020ViProU0020shortU0020RRU0020100bpm.mp3 (171kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

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Posted on Sun, Oct 28 2018 11:48
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11630

Hi Vadim, 

How about connecting the MIDI notes?

There is a similar restriction for VI PRO, btw. When you play staccato repetitions, connections between notes only make sense up to a certain tempo. 

Alternation (alternative versions of a single note) is a different topic.

Humanize is a good idea. Please stand by.

Dion't foget to have a great sunday!

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Oct 28 2018 11:52
by V_ad_im
Joined on Fri, Feb 25 2011, Posts 127

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

How about connecting the MIDI notes?



No, I am about alternative versions, not about notes connection

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Dion't foget to have a great sunday!



Thank you, have a nice sunday too! :)

Posted on Sun, Oct 28 2018 16:44
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4617

You can perform the alternations at any tempo, it's just about the gaps between the notes, in a slower tempo the gaps may become to large therefor the player triggers starting notes (where two alternating variations are available). Just take care about the gaps between the notes, minimize them if necessary, and you will trigger the "performance repetitions" (8 variations).

best
Herb

Posted on Sun, Oct 28 2018 21:05
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 227

Originally Posted by: herb Go to Quoted Post

You can perform the alternations at any tempo, it's just about the gaps between the notes, in a slower tempo the gaps may become to large therefor the player triggers starting notes (where two alternating variations are available). Just take care about the gaps between the notes, minimize them if necessary, and you will trigger the "performance repetitions" (8 variations).

best
Herb

Hi Herb!

I think it would be VERY helpful if in the manual there was some coverage of how to get Synchron how to "behave" based on the MIDI notes themselves.  I remember a past thread where I had asked if legato behavior was affected by touching vs overlap vs long overlap notes.  Or maybe a video tutorial?

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.4.7. Mojave & Windows 10.
Posted on Mon, Oct 29 2018 08:02
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11630

Hello Stephen, 

There are not too many rules: With PERFORMANCES articulations, as they were called in Vienna Instruments collections (= authentically connected notes like legato and repetitions), it's all about playing the connected note within a certain amount of time. 

The "timer" resets after a few milliseconds (shorter times for fast articulations like staccato repetitions, longer times for slower articulations. That should help you to get an authentic start note after a certain time (imagine a trumpet player who has to start with a fresh attack instead of a connected note when the trumpet is still "activated"). 

For Legato Blur, overlaps are the key for a smoother legato when using this fader. 

That should be it. 

I'll try to fit that in with an upcoming video as well. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
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