VSL is definitely the best sample producer in existence, but I have to say Jimmy Hellfire's post was very accurate, thoughtful and really well-written, not at all hostile.  I would call it constructive criticism as it is very detailed and shows a lot of knowledge as well as really good ears concerning problems.  I think maybe the problems can be put down to Synchron Strings being a new direction and somewhat "Experimental" perhaps (?)  One striking thing which Jimmy mentioned was the many velocity layers - I also heard no difference from the previous string libraries created by this increase in layers and was surprised by that.  Also I noticed the Player is oddly similar to the CSS player though not as easy to use.   But I don't mean to be dismissive as it is obviously a very seriously created library with a lot of potential which Beat Kaufmann ( a guy who is now pissed off at me totally due to my critique of his Sousa demo) and Steven Limbaugh and Guy Bacos showed.  (Those are the ones I heard that I thought were really great - probably others as well...) I think people should not be alarmed as VSL has a great history of being very fair to customers and will certainly be fixing problems.

I think that is a good point and had a similar feeling about it being capable of a lot of development depending on how much you work with it, so I think you're right there also. 

- Also, I should have added your work with it has been very impressive as well.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but VSL does actually read these posts very seriously - I know that for a fact.  (Don't ask why!!!)  I also am a huge fan of VI/VE/MIR and in complete and religious awe of Dimension Strings which I think is the greatest technological accomplishment ever done in music history.  (Is that overstating it? Hmm.... no.)

But Synchron promises to be very good also and is still being perfected, so I think people should not panic about it and think they wasted money.  Definitely not a waste with all the carefully detailed samples that have been recorded, and the player is still being perfected and VSL will not leave anyone out to dry, I know that from past experience.

OMG You realy dont realise all your mistakes?

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985

The competition doesn't sleep,

They all just work just in any sense cheaper less detailed. with awful clumsy software and way to often stick together with pretty doubtful Kontaktscripts (sorry that is my humble opinion but there is unfortunately more than enough evidence for.

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985

new approaches. I can't name them

You do not understand them. That is obvious otherwise you would realise, that there is nearly nothing which is not already included in Synchron Strings While the real innovations are something pretty different.

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985

When I'm saying that Synchron Strings has the same patch structure I mean e. g. regular legato - fast legato - slur legato. These patches are in the older libraries, too. "

You not only forgot the soft legato and auto legato. You also did not understand, at all, that the Synchronplayer for the First time realy introduce a very user friendly and reasonable Patchstructure which has nothing parallel among any competitor whon for the most part load either single patches or patches which combine just a comparative small group of basic patches.

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985

I expected something new when Synchron Strings was announced, maybe some all-in-one legato patch with adaptive legato like in e. g. Berlin Strings or CineStrings."

And you just ignore it completly.

Of course the "adaptive Legato" is nothing new for the Synchron strings. This is the Synchron String temposensitive auto-Legato Patch. However if you search "Innovations" than just dont stick on such details and open your eyes for what is realy new and groundbreaking.

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985

Repetition samples are now integrated into the legato patches.

Even that seem to me a bit misunderstood. "Variants" are only part in one of the legato patches. More important is, that all short articulation include now  a good amount of "Variants" which make it possible to just select the shorts even if a passage has many repetitions. But this really not that important for Legato-patches. Thats what I mean: you judge without real understanding of what exactly mean your argument.

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985

IDimension Strings was kind innovative, but what next?" - "There are two of my favourite features which are missing in Synchron Player: 1) Humanize, and, 2) Auto-Voicing. "

Apart from the fact, that Synchron-Player has poly-legato You just missed, that Synchron-Strings this just another kind of product which is indeed not meant to replace the great Dimensionstrings but the oldest VSL-Core-Library the Orchestral-Strings with the basic section-size of orchestral strings. Dimensionstrings are solistic recorded "Ensemblestrings". Synchronstrings are "synchron" from different Microphone positions recorded "Stringsections".And if you always look on the innovative "competitors" most of them (Berlin, Spitfire East West ) Stick still on the Sectionstring concept without being pretty innovative in this aspect at all.

The acoustiv perspective of the recording is completly different and so the possibilities are. the plausibility of hum,anize and Divisi feature in Dimensionstrings depend on the fact that not the section as a whole makes the sample but the ensemble is build up from seperate players.

In short you expect the same product again which is already there and complain missing innovation, just because another Product the Sectionstrings is not the same again what the Dimensionstrings already provide Funny conservative concept of Innovcation.

Again Synchron strings does replace the OrchestralStrings of the Cube not the Dimension Strings.  If you search innovation compare the right products.

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985

"Concerning Synchron Player ... I mean, VI Pro is superior at the moment".

Of course it is not at all. You obviously just did not yet understood the realy groundbreaking innovation of the Samplestructure, which means defenitly not the fact, of different Legato types. Synchron-Player is not only Multidimensional (up to 8 Dimensions which could be either selected or crossfaded) while the Matrix of the VI is 2 Dimensional and a very limited option to crossfade patches. this allows for Synchronplayer to organize the Patches in a way more effective Strucvture to have always every variant already at your fingertip, which you have had to search and organize in the limited VI Matrix pretty more tediously than it is now already done for you. If you ever had worked more intensive with it, you would know this shortcoming of VI.

There is nothing wrong with being a begionner And I do not expect, that you as a beginner must understand all at the first and obviously very superficial glance  but I would expect, that you as a beginner, keep your mind, open enough for the fact that there might be much more and much more really important and musical reasonable under the hood than you obviously are ready tio understand. Therefore I still ask you to study the new Options before complaining., this would make yopur opinion much more convincing.

You aks me if I do have other Libraries? Better ask me which I dont have. Did you realy believe that I dont know what I am talking about. That is really 'a bit' couragous.  While I do not talk about what ever 'boy' you might be. I am only interested to correct the mistakes you state again and again. And "face your" often as uninformed as harsh judgements with the "truth" of the mistakes on which they are obviously in several aspects build on.

Feedback?`OK as a beginner you might not know. But longterm VSL-User know, that they are aware what is discussed here and try to include every reasonable request. But thats true, they do not talk about before they managed to realised a solution. They just kind prefer doing over posting. But again no need for a Beginner playing the one who preaches a truth he himself obcviously is so little familiar with.

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn

fahl5, I must say, you come off as very arrogant throughout this thread.

Ok I thought this thread is aimed to improve Synchron Library, do we end up to improve ,members instead??

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn

The new Synchron player is rather nice - and certainly was necessary for a product as complicated, structure-wise, as Synchron Strings.

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn

But but... it's the results and the sound that counts. And as countless have already pointed out,

I can not see that countless people that have shown any "result". I havent heard nearly any seriously worked out result from anyone who complains here so passionate. Is that so arrogant to ask for concrete results, if that should be "that counts"??? My hint is just not to complain, before having reached any "results".

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn

Synchron Strings is off. Very off. It sounds lifeless and thin, generally speaking. There are good aspects of it; I like the clarity of it, but sadly when the tone is thin and lifeless it doesn't help much.

Or just to make for instance use of the wonderful EQ' in each Synchron Mixerchannel.  Or experiment with different mixes of Microphone positions. Yes thats some work. But... no "result" without work.

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn

And then you go mocking other libraries, because they use Kontakt + scripting. YES they do, and it creates far better results than the legato of Synchron Strings. So who gives a f*ck how it works, as long as it works better?

Ah did they really?

.....I currently don't know any which is in reality so famous for their Legatos moreover I know more than enough who are themself subject of complains and critical debats about their unsatisfying Legato.

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn

You really seem to have lost focus here, trying to defend VSL based on former merits, "groundbreaking innovation of the Samplestructure" and all kinds of other nonsense that really don't amount to anything if you don't get any musicality into the samples.

If you hear a good concert who is responsibe for the "musicality" the instrument or the interpret who makes use of it?

BTW. The Samplestructure introduced by the Synchron-Player is of course not a "former Merit" and it is of course far from being "nonsens" but absolutly necessary as you obviously consent yourself. And yes compared how other manage their patches in Kontak-Players it is defenitly "groundbreaking".

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn

Oh, and by all means, if you want to convince me of the brilliance of SyS,

I am not at all advertising for the product thats the Job of VSL-Marketing. I just criticise mistakes in complaining statements made here. If I am wrong with any Mistake I named let it know me, otherwise it would be moire reasonable to correct the mistake than to blame me as arrogant.

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn

...feel free to post any music you have done with it.

Wow !!!

....you are obviously very attentive reading this forum. Without being "arrogant" I perhaps must remind you, that with nearly 20 recordings with altogether nearly 1 1/2 Hours duration of most ambitious often brilliant Music done nearly exclusivly with Synchron Strings and posted exactly in this Forum here I have provided more than anyone else here occasion enough for you to listen which "results" I have realised with my very first attempts to get familiar with. Meanwhile they are of course nothing more or less than Execises several of them already found their applaus not only from other VSL-Users but also other professional musicians just listend for the music and had fun with it.

But if there are so wonderful other Libraries I would be very interested to hear any results how it would sound like to do any of the pieces I realised with that alledged so much better Library. I personally cant imagine at all which Library that should be. (But please do not pretend anything without concrete audible "result"!)

But of course as you do not accept that other user will need their time to become familiar with the new Software, I know you will not accept, that those are nothing more or less than my first Experiments to develop my usage of the library of course done exactly fopr for having, reflecting and trying succesivly to solve potential problems which of course occurs when starting working with that much of new Samples and Options to controle them.

However call it arrongant or what ever I am defenitly not at all "convinced" from those who expect "results" before and without any serious attemtp to learn the new product step by step. If you dont want to produce the music yourself go for an mp3-Player and download as much "results" as you like A Samplelibrary is still something a bit different than any kind of Jukebox it is an instrument. I dont know any Instruments which must not be learned before getting exactly those Results you want to get.

To make it short what you call "arrogant" is that I do not care for what other complain as "results" they expoect to be already provided by those who produced the Sample library, I am just interested, to figure out what I can do with the new options and I do take obvioously just a bit more time to do so looking not for resaons to complain but for way to use what is there. Does that really deserve to be called "arrogant"? If so I am proud of it

Originally Posted by: Veola

I just cannot understand how people can say there is nothing wrong with this lib? Don't you compare to other libs or listen to recordings? Don't you want something new, improved or groundbreaking from a new lib?

@fahl5, I know that people can get lost in the programming and forget to use their ears and emotions to judge the whole piece. No offence, but you seem a bit like this, pushing as a many pieces through as possible.

Guy Bacos got some demos on the product page, BUT the ones that sound acceptable are the ones layered with other instruments. Its basically covering up the problems of the lib.

The Bee  (Not layered)

Hey Guy!  Did someone swat that bee at the end?

Wow! That is such a great little piece, really a wonderful composition.  And it sounds so perfect - there is no audible difference between this and live.  It is such fun to listen to your brilliant music.   

Originally Posted by: Simon Ravn

fahl5, I must say, you come off as very arrogant throughout this thread, blaming people for lack of skill, not grasping/understanding Synchron Strings etc.

Yes, VSL has always had extremely good software! I use Ensemble Pro all day long. It's an amazing piece of software! The new Synchron player is also rather nice - and certainly was necessary for a product as complicated, structure-wise, as Synchron Strings.

But but... it's the results and the sound that counts. And as countless have already pointed out, Synchron Strings is off. Very off. It sounds lifeless and thin, generally speaking. There are good aspects of it; I like the clarity of it, but sadly when the tone is thin and lifeless it doesn't help much.

And then you go mocking other libraries, because they use Kontakt + scripting. YES they do, and it creates far better results than the legato of Synchron Strings. So who gives a f*ck how it works, as long as it works better?

You really seem to have lost focus here, trying to defend VSL based on former merits, "groundbreaking innovation of the Samplestructure" and all kinds of other nonsense that really don't amount to anything if you don't get any musicality into the samples.

Oh, and by all means, if you want to convince me of the brilliance of SyS, feel free to post any music you have done with it.

 

EDIT: Oh I found a mockup of yours, "Donna Diana Ouverture". You have it right there: The lifeless-ness of the strings. And a very nasal tone too, that I think EQ could help on but let it rest... This certainly doesn't showcase how brilliant SyS is. I don't know your skills towards mocking up orchestral music, so I can't tell if you could do better with other libraries but I certainly know libraries that sound much better, and that this mockup could be much better.

+1