Attached is a file of a couple basic little things... I dunno guys... to me much of this is indistinguishable from real strings. I'm still learning this library, but I'm beginning to like it more than the other VSL libraries.
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I think the problem is nobody knows how to use Sy Strings 1 yet.
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Despite the fact that your production is pretty nice and well done, and anyway with full respect for your opinion, I have to strongly disagree with "the problem is...".
First of all, obviously the library is not crap, it has several good things inside, and some nice well-recorded samples, but it doesn't balance the already deeply explored and technically explained weak-points, we all repeated in previous posts up to sickness. The fact of mastering the library has nothing to do with the overall disappointment:
- you are actually using in your sample long notes, with low vibrato, little or no articulation, and hyper-wet reverb. For this athmospheric sequences the library works well, but to be very honest, not so different to tons of other already existing products for easy or quick cinematic composing. (even some professional keyboards may do it).
- if it was a matter of long and tough learning-curve for the user, then anyway SyS failed the aim: VSL had the aim of creating a quick and easy fast production tool, not a complex and difficoult to manage tool. In my opinion the tool is not difficoult to use at all. Controls are streight forward and the player is pretty simple and clear. The fact you have to work-around so much with dynamics, reverb and eQ to get acceptable sound is the evidence of the weakness. The idea was the opposite, to have it flexible and good-sounding out-of-the-box.
As everybody else noticed, the problem is that if you are not writing a cinematic long notes athmospheric sequence, you will get the harsh synthy sound everytime you try to get expression and articulation in melodic and moving phrases. If you finally try to get the rich variety of articulations of a classical or romantic string orchestra, then you will just get low of ammunitions... too little and too similar articulations to get the requested sound.
We had already Dimension strings and MIR Pro to make the sound and realism to perfection: the only reason to make something new and different, was to make it easy and fast, as requested by professional producers workflow (very often it's: a master-keyboard improvvisation to get inspired, and then a fast set-up and often live-keyboard performance + rough quantization, then editing of MIDI data just for refinement).
For spending long time in programming sequences for accurate performance, Synchron Strings were not the tool, as clearly explained by the advertising, tutorials, and demos of VSL.
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... already deeply explored and technically explained weak-points, we all repeated in previous posts up to sickness.
You are absolutly right the "opinions" of those who scarcly showed that much serious audible attempts with Synchron have been repeated more than enough. Whatever you agree or disagree, please just give place to those who realy work with the library and their results....
Now I am at least way more interested in Stephens concrete solutions,
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I agree with Fatis. This demo isn't too bad, but also not so hard to pull off by any library. It doesn't show agility, legato or expression in a very typical setting. Not dissing the style of music demoed - I am all for it, I like it, but it is really an example of showing the library from its very best side, without much change in expression, only using very long notes etc.
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😎
I'll post Tchaikovsky next now that I know what I'm doing.
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....for easy or quick cinematic composing. (even some professional keyboards may do it). [emphasis added]
....The fact you have to work-around so much with dynamics....
Also, these are were exceedingly hilarious/absurd statements. I never feel the need to defend little mockups I make for the VSL forum. But "work-around so much with dynamics" is exactly why I've only been in the business for two years and have been gainfully employed the whole time: proper immitation of an orchestra requires that one spend time on the dynamics.
Couldn't let that one slide.
Fahl5;
CC automation includes Velocity Xfade, Attack, and a touch of Expression to taper note endings. I've found the behavior of how the instrument reponds, given the increased number of velocity layers, means that the Velocity Xfade can make "drastic" moves in comparison to other VSL libraries that still sound musical.
Also, if the voices are moving at the same time, I play the top voice, then copy paste down to the other sections, and change the notes accordingly. That helped establish a concise ensemble feel.
Lastly, nothing is on the grid. 😉
Tone production, once I have a more tested philosophy, I'll let everyone know. But the jist of it is that I'm treating different mic positions with different types of saturation, even adding a little distortion, with some 3rd party plugins. I'm finding that is a "secret" to great tone. Verb is the Synchron verb.
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....for easy or quick cinematic composing. (even some professional keyboards may do it). [emphasis added]
....The fact you have to work-around so much with dynamics....
Also, these are were exceedingly hilarious/absurd statements....
Well, Stephen, I suppose there is some language or cultural issue, because I just see you didn't understand a single word of what I wrote. Then first I try to explain:
- you don't have to defend your little work, because I clearly wrote I think it's pretty nice and well done. Then your personal sensibility should not get offended, and should not feel the need of reacting with some emotional mood or "defensive" attitude at all.
- I wrote something detailed and clear about: your assumption that all are just lazy people that didn't understand yet how to work with SyS, and that's why they are disappointed or they don't get the right sound out of it. I also wrote something detailed about the technical stuff you exploited in your work. I'm curious to listen to your next more complex Tchaikovsky, to see if you will get equally good and realistic results out of the comfort zone of SyS (long notes, low vibrato, slow articulation, super-wet reverb etc.).
But I have to add a comment about the useless offensive form of your answer:
I don't get why you extrapolate my sentence about dynamic totally misunderstanding the meaning, but I feel some prejudice and a little excess of self confidence drove you in this direction, that's why I had to answer, otherwise I should just ignore your offenses. It's obvious to almost ALL the memebers, including the beginners, that musical expression is coming from accurate use of controllers. What's the need of your comment that of course you do it... do you think you are the only one? Do you think me or others don't know? If you were more cautious and less emotional, you maybe can get I was talking about the whole set of issues of SyS vs. other libraries, issues that also your firend Fahl was exactly depicting (e.g. eQ etc.), and were object of analysis and debate by great musicians of the community, I hope you aren't brave enough of criticizing... in case you are, ok I got your point and no need to talk further about it.
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Tone production, once I have a more tested philosophy, I'll let everyone know. But the jist of it is that I'm treating different mic positions with different types of saturation, even adding a little distortion, with some 3rd party plugins. I'm finding that is a "secret" to great tone. Verb is the Synchron verb.
This is very interesting for me I still try to improve my usage of the vast options to design the tone in Synchron in each new project, But I like your focus on this aspect when you explore the Synchron Strings.
Thank you for your detailed answer.
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And there you have it, kids. This kind of revolutionary insight is exactly why this forum needs fahl5. Use the modwheel. It seems such a far-fetched idea, but given the obvious, audible rigor and dilligence that goes into the sculpting of convincing and emotive virtual perfomance in his own works, who would ever doubt it?
I have another secret studio tip for anyone who might struggle to get the best out of their virtual instruments. On many studio monitors, when you look at the back side, there is a switch that says ON/OFF. Put this switch in the ON position - many monitors emit a suggestive light upon doing this - and play something on your keyboard. You will find the results distinctively more musical and way less katastrofahl!
I have to wrap it up for now, as I'm in a bit pressed for time at the moment. I have a meeting with a client who has ample interest in purchasing this bridge I've been trying to sell.
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And there you have it, kids. This kind of revolutionary insight is exactly why this forum needs fahl5. Use the modwheel. It seems such a far-fetched idea, but given the obvious, audible rigor and dilligence that goes into the sculpting of convincing and emotive virtual perfomance in his own works, who would ever doubt it?
I have another secret studio tip for anyone who might struggle to get the best out of their virtual instruments. On many studio monitors, when you look at the back side, there is a switch that says ON/OFF. Put this switch in the ON position - many monitors emit a suggestive light upon doing this - and play something on your keyboard. You will find the results distinctively more musical and way less katastrofahl!
I have to wrap it up for now, as I'm in a bit pressed for time at the moment. I have a meeting with a client who has ample interest in purchasing this bridge I've been trying to sell.
Now, this is comedy! 😊
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And there you have it, kids. This kind of revolutionary insight is exactly why this forum needs fahl5. Use the modwheel. It seems such a far-fetched idea, but given the obvious, audible rigor and dilligence that goes into the sculpting of convincing and emotive virtual perfomance in his own works, who would ever doubt it?
Haha 😊 Yeah... I also chuckled quite a bit reading Fahl's response. Actually, I think my eyes took several 360 degrees rotations too. Words just don't suffice here.
