VI: How can I control velocity with faders?

[patmaddox]

Hi, I don't want to use my MIDI keyboard's velocity to control the instrument velocity. Instead, I want to use faders.

From what I can tell, there are three settings that could potentially enable this:

• volume
• expression
• velocity XF

I think velocity XF is the one I want.

However, if I load a Vibraphone (SE) and enable velocity XF, the velocity XF slider affects the sound after it's played. So I can set the slider low, play a note, and increase the slider to create a swell.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's how a vibraphone works, is it?

It seems as though the velocity XF setting acts as a mixer fader, rather than a velocity setting.

My very basic understanding of MIDI CC is:

• volume (default CC 7) is like a mixer fader
• expression (default CC 11) is sustain dynamics (and maybe note on velocity?)
• velocity XF (corresponds to MIDI velocity?) is note on velocity

So for example, I would set volume to achieve a static balance between instruments. Expression would be for things like swells on a violin, but would have no effect on a piano or vibraphone. Velocity XF would set the note on velocity for each MIDI note, but would not affect a note after it's been triggered.

But that's not how it seems to work in VI. Both expression and velocity XF affect the level of a vibraphone after it's been triggered, and I don't think it should.

In fact, I think I ought to be able to use a single setting – expression – for all playing dynamics.

On a violin, changing the expression would change the volume and timbre as the note sustains.

On a vibraphone, changing the expression would have no effect on sustained notes, but would set the attack velocity of new notes.

How can I accomplish that with VI?

[bbelius]

Make sure that the Velocity X-fade checkbox is checked. This checkbox is also controllable by CC as mapped in the mapping tab.

[patmaddox]

@bbelius said:

Make sure that the Velocity X-fade checkbox is checked. This checkbox is also controllable by CC as mapped in the mapping tab.

I did, my whole post talks about the unexpected behavior of Velocity XF 😊  The Velocity XF setting seems to affect volume rather than velocity.

[bbelius]

Velocity X-fade changes timbre (crossfades between layers) and volume. Normaly you wouldn't use this on percussion or plucked samples (guitar, pizz, vibraphone, etc).

[patmaddox]

@Another User said:

Normaly you wouldn't use this on percussion or plucked samples (guitar, pizz, vibraphone, etc).

Well... then how do I set the velocity for mallet instruments when I play them, using a slider? For me it's natural to play with my right hand, and use my left hand to set the slider. So when I play a new note, it plays at the velocity that matches the slider's current setting.

Interestingly, I loaded the Bosendorfer and this is exactly how it behaves. Set the velocity XF slider to max, play a note, and slide it down while the note sustains, and play a new note. The first note is played loudly but the level doesn't change, and the second note plays softly.

I wonder what the difference is between how the Bosendorfer is configured and how the Vibraphone is? I'll take a closer look at it...

In the mean time, if anyone knows how to make Vibraphone respond same way as Bosendorfer, I'd really appreciate it.

[bbelius]

Yes, expression just changes the volume.

Which Bösendorfer do you have? Bösendorfer Imperial or Vienna Imperial?

[patmaddox]

Whichever one comes with SE

[jasensmith]

Why would you use a velocity X fade fuction with a percussive instrument?  Far be it for me to criticize somebody ele's workflow but isn't it more natural to just play the keys on the keyboard harder to get a louder sound then using a fader?  If ;you were to play a real Vibraphone you would play the mallets harder to get a louder sound and vice versa wouldn't you?

Well, if that's the way you like to work then have you tried writing in the CC data manually?  Or, if you're using a DAW, you could just highlight the Vel X fade data after you record it then simply click and drag it slightly before the notes you want affected.

Also, if you're using the SE collection then you're probably only dealing with two or three velocity layers anyway so you don't have much to play with.  In this case you might be better off using vel X fade in conjuction with subtle Expression in which case you would more than likely have to go back and edit the CC data to smooth out the inconsistant volumes.

[richhickey]

@patmaddox said:

Well... then how do I set the velocity for mallet instruments when I play them, using a slider? For me it's natural to play with my right hand, and use my left hand to set the slider. So when I play a new note, it plays at the velocity that matches the slider's current setting.

Interestingly, I loaded the Bosendorfer and this is exactly how it behaves. Set the velocity XF slider to max, play a note, and slide it down while the note sustains, and play a new note. The first note is played loudly but the level doesn't change, and the second note plays softly.

I wonder what the difference is between how the Bosendorfer is configured and how the Vibraphone is? I'll take a closer look at it...

In the mean time, if anyone knows how to make Vibraphone respond same way as Bosendorfer, I'd really appreciate it.

I agree that vel-xfade should do velocity-only when dealing with samples that can only decay after the note is struck (like percussion and pizzicato). And what you want is perfectly valid, since faders/pedals can e.g. provide more consistent velocity than many keyboards and controllers, you may have developed performance skills/techniques having used your faders on other instruments etc. There should at least be a mode for this behavior.

In the meantime, I use a Bome MIDI Translator script to change my expression pedal's CC into velocity and replace the velocities on the notes coming from my Linnstrument (a great controller with not-great velocity sensitivity). Then I run VI Pro with vel xfade off. You can do this with other scripting tools too like Logic's Scripter MIDI effect. But it's a workaround for a missing feature IMO.

[patmaddox]

@richhickey said:

I agree that vel-xfade should do velocity-only when dealing with samples that can only decay after the note is struck (like percussion and pizzicato). And what you want is perfectly valid, since faders/pedals can e.g. provide more consistent velocity than many keyboards and controllers, you may have developed performance skills/techniques having used your faders on other instruments etc. There should at least be a mode for this behavior.

Interesting, so is this something that is programmed on a per-instrument basis by VSL, and not configurable?