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MORE VI ! MORE VI !
Last post Mon, Oct 22 2018 by michi, 78 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Sep 12 2018 14:58
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5164

I know the Synchron series/player is great, but I hope VSL continues recording more VI instruments with the perfected techniques of VI. 

I wonder if other composers/performers here think the same? Please write in here to MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! 

I was thinking the other day how VI-VE-MIR are some of the most perfect software of any kind I have ever used.  VI allows control of every possible MIDI parameter down to the patch level and if one makes a template, there is no extra work or labor afterwards.  And MIR is a brilliantly designed, elegant masterpiece that was like a dream come true for me - to get such a variety of awesome sounds so easily, just like arranging musicians on a stage. 

What would be beyond awesome is another set of Dimension Strings samples to add less used but important articulations - yes I know that was grueling to create, but it is the most remarkable sample library ever created and worth it!  

Also to sample some more ethnic/unusual/historic instruments in addtion to the ones already done.  For example - there are no sackbuts!  You HAVE to have sackbuts for Renaissance/medieval !  And a historic percussion group would be essential also - if you are doing some ancient music and you naturally want percussion - what do you do now?  Modern cymbals/bells/drums? 

So there are (as I am sure VSL knows) a good number of instruments that NEED to be sampled and to be compatible with the vast, incredibly powerful VI instruments that already exist. 

We need picket lines formed outside the VSL studios, with people blocking traffic, carrying signs, staging sit-ins and chanting...

MORE VI !  MORE VI !  

Posted on Wed, Sep 12 2018 15:11
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 319

Here! Here! Hear this man!

Paolo

Posted on Wed, Sep 12 2018 15:56
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

I do lilke the existent VI-Libraries and the Silent-stage concept, while I think the Synchron-Player concept is even for silent-stage Libraries still a reasonable and significant improvement for organizing that wealth of instruments and their articulationtypes.. And the fact, that the Smart-Orchestra is designed for the Synmchron-Player seems to indicate, that VSL, also know those advantages for ver very different kinds of usage.

There are many interesting things they might or even should do (one of my favorites would be to make their wonderful vokalists be able to sing not only "a" and "u" but comparable articulation sets in all vowels (german "e", "i", "o") and this would be an extension for the exsioting silent-stage library - while the synchron player again wouold be a great help to organize the different syllaböes.)

But it is understandable if after 15 years they will replace the orchestral Cube with a new "state of the art" Prodiuct  since this is kind of their core product. However some grumpy Library Forum-Posters (who often are not that much know for any notable music produced with any Synchron Library ) might complain what they are just not yet used to handle right, the Synchron Series will set standards again difficult to meet by anyone else. So imho they should and will first give us the complete new Orchestra, for what ever else will follow will be still time enough after.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Wed, Sep 12 2018 21:06
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 204
Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post
I know the Synchron series/player is great, but I hope VSL continues recording more VI instruments with the perfected techniques of VI.
I wonder if other composers/performers here think the same? Please write in here to MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!
I was thinking the other day how VI-VE-MIR are some of the most perfect software of any kind I have ever used. VI allows control of every possible MIDI parameter down to the patch level and if one makes a template, there is no extra work or labor afterwards. And MIR is a brilliantly designed, elegant masterpiece that was like a dream come true for me - to get such a variety of awesome sounds so easily, just like arranging musicians on a stage.
What would be beyond awesome is another set of Dimension Strings samples to add less used but important articulations - yes I know that was grueling to create, but it is the most remarkable sample library ever created and worth it!
Also to sample some more ethnic/unusual/historic instruments in addtion to the ones already done. For example - there are no sackbuts! You HAVE to have sackbuts for Renaissance/medieval ! And a historic percussion group would be essential also - if you are doing some ancient music and you naturally want percussion - what do you do now? Modern cymbals/bells/drums?
So there are (as I am sure VSL knows) a good number of instruments that NEED to be sampled and to be compatible with the vast, incredibly powerful VI instruments that already exist.
We need picket lines formed outside the VSL studios, with people blocking traffic, carrying signs, staging sit-ins and chanting...
MORE VI ! MORE VI !


OMG William, I can’t agree more. I really hope they will go ahead with VI VE and MIR updates... I also considered them the best musical software combination ever.

In the thread about new VSL trend I refrained, to avoid polemics or sound sarcastic, from writing “ if this is the trend and the target customers group, the next will be an instant orchestra...”as a joke. Well actually it was the following product... and it’s not 1st of April.

Nothing against a new marketing strategy and exploring new commercial targets, but the company has limited Human Resources, and my fear is they will be absorbed in the synchron keyboard and quick orchestration product line, instead of the old classic line. The evidence is we are still waiting presets for synchron stage MIR venue, and MIRx, but a lot of synchronized sounds were launched instead... tough.
Posted on Wed, Sep 12 2018 21:16
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 75

+1

2010 MacPro 12core X 3.33ghz, 64gb ram, VSL Cube, MIRPro, VEP6, LogicPro, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Thu, Sep 13 2018 15:32
by richhickey
Joined on Wed, Nov 01 2017, Posts 14

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

I know the Synchron series/player is great, but I hope VSL continues recording more VI instruments with the perfected techniques of VI. 

I wonder if other composers/performers here think the same? Please write in here to MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! 

I was thinking the other day how VI-VE-MIR are some of the most perfect software of any kind I have ever used.  VI allows control of every possible MIDI parameter down to the patch level and if one makes a template, there is no extra work or labor afterwards.  And MIR is a brilliantly designed, elegant masterpiece that was like a dream come true for me - to get such a variety of awesome sounds so easily, just like arranging musicians on a stage. 

What would be beyond awesome is another set of Dimension Strings samples to add less used but important articulations - yes I know that was grueling to create, but it is the most remarkable sample library ever created and worth it!  

Also to sample some more ethnic/unusual/historic instruments in addtion to the ones already done.  For example - there are no sackbuts!  You HAVE to have sackbuts for Renaissance/medieval !  And a historic percussion group would be essential also - if you are doing some ancient music and you naturally want percussion - what do you do now?  Modern cymbals/bells/drums? 

So there are (as I am sure VSL knows) a good number of instruments that NEED to be sampled and to be compatible with the vast, incredibly powerful VI instruments that already exist. 

We need picket lines formed outside the VSL studios, with people blocking traffic, carrying signs, staging sit-ins and chanting...

MORE VI !  MORE VI !  

Yes please - more VIs, more MIR rooms, VI Pro UI size increase and features and especially more Dimension Strings!!!

Posted on Fri, Sep 14 2018 07:16
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Where exactly should that end up?

"Oh please VSL do not improve anything you ever did, just always sell the same thing and release every year the same products again and again"

Is that what you are looking for?

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Fri, Sep 14 2018 08:23
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 204

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Where exactly should that end up?

"Oh please VSL do not improve anything you ever did, just always sell the same thing and release every year the same products again and again"

Is that what you are looking for?

Not at all. It seems you didn't read or didn't understand what has been (by the way clearly and in details) written. Or maybe your post is just an off-topic provocative sarcasm?

Posted on Fri, Sep 14 2018 08:55
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

Where exactly should that end up?

"Oh please VSL do not improve anything you ever did, just always sell the same thing and release every year the same products again and again"

Is that what you are looking for?

Not at all. It seems you didn't read or didn't understand what has been (by the way clearly and in details) written. Or maybe your post is just an off-topic provocative sarcasm?

It is a simple and plain question, which you did not answer at all with your wild speculations what I personally in your opinion alledgly have read or not. Just stay with the topic and already posted arguments of the thread and answer my question related to them (and not what ever you try to insinuate to my person).

OK to make it a bit easier for you:

To ask for more VI, is kind of rejecting the Synchron-Series VSL is just starting to launch for which they spend very much hard work to develop major steps ahaed in usability, versatility and quality is kind of rejecting all the work which they already spent to present their customurs major and fundamental improvements of the products provided by VSL. In short it is as if you just reject all the effort they have done to improve what they sell. So what should that end up. What improvement should that be, if you dont want the improvement they in reality are currently on the way to introduce.

Beside some Ideas of rare hiustoric instruments this thread at least has not answered this question.

So here is your chance to just put some light on the question what improvement you are exactly asking for.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Fri, Sep 14 2018 09:24
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 204

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

So here is your chance to just put some light on the question what improvement you are exactly asking for.

Oh thank you for giving us the chance once again! But, sorry, William did it already in an elegant and clear way. It's just you not understanding it. And due to your sarcasm and off-topic attitude, you will be ignored. Did you realize that? Peace and love.

Posted on Fri, Sep 14 2018 09:32
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: fahl5 Go to Quoted Post

So here is your chance to just put some light on the question what improvement you are exactly asking for.

Oh thank you for giving us the chance once again! But, sorry, William did it already in an elegant and clear way. It's just you not understanding it. And due to your sarcasm and off-topic attitude, you will be ignored. Did you realize that? Peace and love.

It is realy tiresome to discuss with someone who dont argue at all. However chacun á son gout.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Fri, Sep 14 2018 20:09
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5164

I am certainly not putting down the Synchron series which is a great addition.  I am just hoping that VSL will continue with two basic product lines that include Synchron as well as VI which I hope will continue to be added to. 

I was thinking about why the basic Vienna Instruments design is so tremendously appealing, and it is because of   a number of things that are fundamentally different from all other sample libraries:

1) the basis of each instrument is as "raw" and direct and pristine a recording as can be done with samples - unlike other libraries that are heavily processed -  and done with scrupulous care taken to keep the authentic pure timbral characteristics of the instrument with no alteration of basic tonal quality. This is tremendously facillitated by the Silent Stage.

2) the interface has all needed controls instantly accessible without wading through menus

3) the user can create his own instrument out of any articulation group down to the single patch level, and control how they are played with every possible parameter of MIDI.  

4) most remarkably of all - and this is what makes me never want to use other libraries anywhere near as much as VSL - one can create an instrument that is as simple as ONE articulation, or as complex as dozens or more.  This allows instruments that only have the samples that are needed for a particular musical performance.  For example, one often finds in a certain line that no articulations are needed other than legato, sustain, and staccato.  Or on some lyrical melodic pieces I have even had only two articulations - legato and sustain.  And yet they sound fully expressed within the musical requirements of the composition.  I love that possibility of simplicity and directness and don't find it with other software - you have total direct control over the original recordings.

5) and I have to add the presence of MIR which is so tremendous for musicians, who like me are not engineers or geeks but are trying to get a good mix themselves.  MIR was designed so brilliantly to be understandable to  musicians right down to having the players on stage where one places them, and default settings that are incredibly beautiful.  

So I am a VI fanboy from way back.  But this is not about being negative about Synchron, which is a super-impressive library, just a positive statement about the previous ones!  

Posted on Fri, Sep 14 2018 21:35
by TBaron
Joined on Sat, Jun 30 2012, Edmonton Alberta Canada, Posts 6
I agree I hope VSL continues with the VI line. It’s nice to have a sample library that’s closer to what you would hear in a concert hall, rather than every sample library having to have the sound of a Hollywood sound stage. I like them both, and think of them as two separate tools. That’s why I’m a little concerned about buying more of the VI line as I’m not sure if they’ll just cancel it. Hope they don’t.
T.Baron
Posted on Sat, Sep 15 2018 04:56
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 398
Of course there will be VI products. But take a look how long it takes to transfer a product from VI Player to Synchron Player. The SY-Strings 1 took already a long time and the percussions take as long as hell. The VSL will probably first make the transfers of the existing VI products to the new player (as soon as it is ready!) and after that they will come with new products. If they would bring new products before the new player-release they had to transfer the new products as well. And that would cost more time.
So, Player first, then products! This process will take longer ... that is for sure. Paul said that a lot of unreleased VI were recorded since VSL started. But I do not think that there are active recordings running. Michael Hula and Co. can of course not record on 2 places at the same time. And I posted already in another thread that the German version of this website shows a text, that you do not find in the English version ... The Silent Stage can be rented for musical projects.
—Lurker-mode—
Posted on Sat, Sep 15 2018 07:32
by fahl5
Joined on Fri, Feb 04 2005, Hall One, Posts 922

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

I am certainly not putting down the Synchron series which is a great addition.  I am just hoping that VSL will continue with two basic product lines that include Synchron as well as VI which I hope will continue to be added to. 

...

1) the basis of each instrument is as "raw" and direct and pristine a recording as can be done with samples - unlike other libraries that are heavily processed -  and done with scrupulous care taken to keep the authentic pure timbral characteristics of the instrument with no alteration of basic tonal quality. This is tremendously facillitated by the Silent Stage.

Of course the Silent-stage concept  was right and I could also imagine, that especially historical instruments would make more sens in silent stage than as Part of the Synchron Series (While as LAJ indicated Synchron presumably still needs it time)

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

2) the interface has all needed controls instantly accessible without wading through menus

3) the user can create his own instrument out of any articulation group down to the single patch level, and control how they are played with every possible parameter of MIDI.  

4) most remarkably of all - and this is what makes me never want to use other libraries anywhere near as much as VSL - one can create an instrument that is as simple as ONE articulation, or as complex as dozens or more.  This allows instruments that only have the samples that are needed for a particular musical performance.  For example, one often finds in a certain line that no articulations are needed other than legato, sustain, and staccato.  Or on some lyrical melodic pieces I have even had only two articulations - legato and sustain.  And yet they sound fully expressed within the musical requirements of the composition.  I love that possibility of simplicity and directness and don't find it with other software - you have total direct control over the original recordings.

Imho, I strongly believe that you might appreciate the same aspects perhaps even more as soon you are as much used to work with the Synchron Player as you have been with VI.

@2) Of course imho the interface is not realy that intricate I believe it is designed for even better usability.

@3) The possibility to configure Midi-controle seem to me in Synchron Player even more extended than it was in VI before

@4) As far as I know the the Synchron Player allows the User both to design his own instruments from even more simple to trememdously much more complex but still reasonable structured instruments

while ( to come back to the question of this thread) imho the Synchron Player ad some fundamental innovations which helps to solve laborious problems VI still have so I would even wish they will sooner or later manage to provide also a silent-stage version of the synchron-Player for silenmtstage Libraries to be used in MIR what means: "More Sychron-Player Libraries! More Sychron-Player Libraries! even when it comes to silent-stage recordings"

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

So I am a VI fanboy from way back.  But this is not about being negative about Synchron, which is a super-impressive library, just a positive statement about the previous ones!  

I think thats what we all consent in this point.

http://klassik-resampled.de ... 3443 mp3 with 162 hours of sample based interpretations of complete Scores from 7 Centuries

http://synchron.12sf.de ...Synchron-Strings explored in 44 mp3 with more than four hours of complete and ambitious scores from 19th, 20th and 21th century produced with Synchron-Player Strings.

...anything comparable anywhere?
Posted on Sat, Sep 15 2018 12:20
by antcarrier
Joined on Fri, Sep 24 2010, Sunshine Coast, Australia, Posts 41
+1!

I am far more interested in more VI Pro/Silent Stage libraries and MIR Roompacks than in anything synchron - although I can understand the appeal of the synchron series for new users (being all-in-one), and I do really enjoy the synchron stage MIR roompack. Personally I have zero interest in any synchron-ized libraries.

This is my biggest wish:

Originally Posted by: William Go to Quoted Post

What would be beyond awesome is another set of Dimension Strings samples to add less used but important articulations - yes I know that was grueling to create, but it is the most remarkable sample library ever created and worth it!


https://soundcloud.com/jonny_lawson/
Dimension Strings 1+2, Harps, Vienna Imperial
Winds Complete, Percussion Complete, MIR Pro, VI Pro
Posted on Sat, Sep 15 2018 17:17
by Acclarion
Joined on Sat, Aug 15 2015, Canada, Eh!, Posts 391

I'm also in full agreement on the flexibility, versatility, and endless possibilities the dry samples/Mir provide to sculpt and shape the sound you need for a wide variety of genres/styles.  I do have the Synchron Strings, but as of yet, have not found them to be more useable than the dry libraries.  There are idiosyncrasies, owing primarily to the way the extra velocity layers seem to affect the ease/playability of the Synchron Strings, that in no way improve my workflow, but rather hinder it.  My interest in the Synchron Strings when they were first advertised, was the ease of use; my hope was that they would enable me to realise my musical ideas more quickly.  Instead, I find that they have the opposite effect, requiring significantly more time to shape/sculpt a convincing performance, and one that still does not give me the same aesthetic satisfaction that VSL's original libraries do.  

In my opinion, VSL could borrow from the slogan of a breakfast cereal:  Kelogg's Corn Flakes was marketed as "the original and best" despite dozens of flashy/sugary/fun-shaped cereals that looked more appealing on the box.  It's what's inside that counts, and VSL's dry samples, as William and others have stated, just "work."

Dave

www.dearvillainmusic.com - music for live performance by David Carovillano

www.acclarion.ca - concert accordion & clarinet duo
Posted on Sat, Sep 15 2018 23:37
by kamil
Joined on Mon, Feb 23 2015, Posts 16
+1
I add my voice to you, VI. It is gave a freedom to the musicians and ability to make what he want.
Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2018 01:49
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1373

Count me in

Still waiting for that Boys choir  for starters.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sun, Sep 16 2018 07:02
by LAJ
Joined on Sun, Dec 13 2009, Posts 398
Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post
Count me in
Still waiting for that Boys choir for starters.


... plus the solo boys for the PROs ;) ... !

—Lurker-mode—
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