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Questions before I buy Special Edition Collection
Last post Sun, Oct 21 2018 by stefan_telser, 16 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Oct 15 2018 20:40
by GreenGoose58
Joined on Mon, Oct 15 2018, Posts 15

Hello all! I've started studying composition at university, and I've been looking at ways to make my mockups sound better. I own both cubase and sibelius, but I mostly use sibelius and noteperformer because I enjoy composing with notation software. I am blown away by the integration VSL appears to have with sibelius, and the quality, but I have a few quick questions!

 

1. Is it possible to set up woodwinds/brass to do a due (a2/a3/a4) on a single staff? With noteperformer, I specify a2 with expression text, and it automatically switches between 2 horns in unison for single notes, then splits the horns to one on each note for chords. Just curious if there is a way to set up something simliar with patches/matrices. It's ok if I need to specify when the switches are with expression text (rather than it be automatic), just curious if a setup like this is possible with the included patches. My brass orchestration requires 4 horns (2 per line), 3 to 4 trumpets (2 per line), 3 trombones (2tenor on a line, bass on another). On the lines with 2 instruments I have the a2. I have a similar setup with the woodwinds ( 2 flutes on a line, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, etc, all a2). Here is my full instrumentation, just wondering if something like this is possible: (https://imgur.com/a/WFBmfo4). This is my biggest concern.

 

2. I see that there is a Bb Trumpet included, but it is missing some articulations. Does the C Trumpet sound similar, and could I use it to mimic the Bb trumpet? I apologize for my ignorance on this matter. I have never worked with a C trumpet before, but it has most of the articulations I am needing.

 

3. Also, is there a french horn mute (stopped) sample included? I haven't been able to find information on this anywhere. I did read that the Vienna horn comes with stopped samples. However, I cannot find if this included in the special edition, and I can't find them in the Audition player. I would like to avoid buying a full instrument just to get the muted samples, when I have everything else I need included with the special edition.

 

4. I know the dimension series has some sort of divisi system, but I was curious if there was some way to mimic divisi on a single line by using different patches of strings? It doesn't have to be exact, just curious if anyone has any solutions to this. I am not too familiar with Vienna Instruments Pro 2 and its intergration with Sibelius.

 

5. This is a random one, but is it possible to write a tremolo between two notes and have it play back properly? Furthermore, is it possible to playback measured tremolos (1/2dashes)?

 

6. Is there a timpani sfz/Fp articulation included?

 

I'm sure these have simple answers that I'm missing, but I'd really appreciate any help you guys can offer :) Thanks so much!

Posted on Wed, Oct 17 2018 14:25
by Pieman1560
Joined on Mon, May 07 2018, Gloucestershire, UK, Posts 63

Hi

To answer question 4 first, as far as i can tell, the answer is no, you can't mimic Divisi with the Special Editions. you can stack instruments in slots (this is very effective for unison lines etc) but as far as i can tell by tweeking with it they dont divide (for exapmle, 14 violins into 2 groups of 7) to play two notes on the same stave....thats what Dimension strings are for, as with the sound set installed will behave as you'd expect with a2 etc.

As far as i can tell, Tremolo works as expected, i havnt experianced any negative playback at all, either using 'tremolo' as a text instruction, or using dashed notes directly in the stave.

The other questions i cannot answer as i only have SE1 and 1plus at the moment, but what i can say is that the integration with Vienna and Sibelius is wonderful, so much so that i cant seem to get into using a DAW (Logic) as i'm so used to how Sibelius works now.

That being said, logic works really well with the special editions now as well with a plugin, so if thats your daw of choice your covered.

If you havent bit the bullet yet....treat yourself and get it....you'll be glad you did!

Good luck mate

Kindest

Paul

Posted on Wed, Oct 17 2018 14:41
by GreenGoose58
Joined on Mon, Oct 15 2018, Posts 15

Hi Paul, thank you so much for your comment!

I am glad that you have been having a great experience with VSL's sibelius integration. That makes me very excited about the possibilities :)

 

If you don't mind me asking, I just have a question regarding some setup in Vienna Instruments Pro that I believe you might can answer.

 

In terms of stacking the instruments, would it be possible to stack two 14 violin patches (which are included) for unison, then have them split (one 14 violin patch for each note) using expression text? I think you were saying it's not possible to split into smaller sections because those patches are not included, if I'm not mistaken. But would just using two large sections on top of each other work? It's not actually what would happen in real life, but I feel it would be close enough for my purposes. I guess I'm just not sure if this is possible in VIP and how that would work with sibelius integration.

 

And I assume if the above is possible, you could do something similar with the solo instrument sounds in the woodwinds/brass to achieve the a2 effect.

 

Also, I believe percussion is included in the Special edition 1/plus. Would you mind checking if there is a Timpani sfz/Fp articulation? I would really appreciate it! I use this quite often, if it's not included I will probably end up buying the full instrument along with the collection.

 

Thanks again for your help!

Posted on Wed, Oct 17 2018 15:49
by Pieman1560
Joined on Mon, May 07 2018, Gloucestershire, UK, Posts 63

Hi

The Timpani only has hits and Rolls, and doesnt seem to have dynamic articulations...but its lovely!

I suppose you could stack 2 groups of 14 violins, but i dont think that would work so well, as then when you have two notes per stave youd here 28 violins (as 14 would play each note)

a better way i think would be this.

If your going to be using Sibelius, make two violin staves. 1 would be for 1st violins (for example 14 from the Orcestral strings in pack 1) and the other could be the Chamber strings from the other pack....2 i think!

now...and its not really a massive hastle, if you want your strings to play divisi, use the chamber string stave for these passages, as i think there a 6 violins (so if you want to divide you strings a2 then you'd here 12 strings. 6 playing each note) for those notes.

i use this for solo violin passages and im happy with the results i'm getting. its not perfect, but thats why my wallet is hiding from Dimension strings!.......that they have a sound set for by the way!

i use 2 flutes for music i'm writing at the moment, and use 2 staves (1 for each flute) so its not really an issue with solo instruments.

A BIG......BIG......MASSIVE tip to give you!

Writting in Sibelius is wonderful, but to get it to play back really well have a main score.....lets call it the original score and then save it and make an exact copy and call it something different like PLAYBACK.

Once your happy that the Original score is written correctly, and i often cut and paste the divisi staves into the main violin stave as all expression and system text is there (a2, divisi etc) then.........Save it and.....DON'T TOUCH this one! 

Tweak to your harts content the PLAYBACK score...as if you use Sibeliuses built in dynamics plugins you may need to use the delete, or undo alot.

Good luck mate, 

Kindest

Paul

Posted on Wed, Oct 17 2018 16:05
by GreenGoose58
Joined on Mon, Oct 15 2018, Posts 15

Paul,

Thank you so much for the great tip! That is really helpful.

 

I wonder if it is possible though to switch between two custom presets on a single staff? One custom preset with the 14 sting patch, and another custom preset with the chamber strings? Then switch between them with expression text on a single line. I'm not too well-versed in Vienna Instruments Pro yet, but it is so customizable I'm beginning to think something like that might be possible.

 

Nevertheless, you have definitely helped me make my decision. I hope to pick up the collection soon :)

Posted on Fri, Oct 19 2018 06:08
by stefan_telser
Joined on Wed, Mar 14 2007, Posts 113

Hi,

this schould be possible. I use changing articulations with expressiontext in Sibelius a lot.

For example:
Matrix 1 is Orchestral Strings, Matrix 2 is Camber Strings.
Below the note where I want the switch to take place I insert an expressiontext:

divisi ~CC25,1

Controller 25 being the controlIer I  set up to switch between matrixes.

unisono ~CC25,0

switching back to Matrix 1 and therefore to the Orchestra strings.

Of course you can do this with any controller-setup, and even within a matrix.

I hope I undestood your question right and the answer helped.

Best Stefan

Posted on Fri, Oct 19 2018 14:00
by Pieman1560
Joined on Mon, May 07 2018, Gloucestershire, UK, Posts 63

Hi Stefan

blimey, i didn't even know you could do that....its going to save a LOAD of cutting and pasting!

I've tried to set that up, but cannot for the life of me work out what i need to do. Could you give me an idea of how i'd set that up, as i assume i need to enable 'Matrix CC' in the options of VI Pro, but no matter what i do it won't change from 'off'

Kindest regards

Paul

Posted on Fri, Oct 19 2018 15:47
by stefan_telser
Joined on Wed, Mar 14 2007, Posts 113

Hi Paul,

I made a screenshot.

Screenshot

Should work that way if VI oder VEnsemble is connected to Sibelius.

Best Stefan

Posted on Fri, Oct 19 2018 16:23
by Pieman1560
Joined on Mon, May 07 2018, Gloucestershire, UK, Posts 63

Hi Stefan

Thanks so much for the screen shot mate.

I'm using Sibelius, Vi Pro and Vienna Ensamble and everythings cool with the template im using, but for the life of me I can't get the Matrix CC to change from 'off' (in the options tab bottom left of master settings..the one you have got switched to 25)

Any idea how i get it to turn on?

I really do appreciate you help

Kindest regards

Paul

Posted on Fri, Oct 19 2018 16:34
by stefan_telser
Joined on Wed, Mar 14 2007, Posts 113

Did you change the setting (one of the red circles) from keyswitch to program (prg)?

Then you have to doubleclick into the MatrixCC button. then you can edit the value.

This setting is fixed in my startup setup, so I actually do not remember any troubleshooting I might have done previously.

Best Stefan

Posted on Fri, Oct 19 2018 16:41
by Pieman1560
Joined on Mon, May 07 2018, Gloucestershire, UK, Posts 63

Hi Stefan

Mate...thanks so much for your help

i've got it sorted now. I had changed the setting from keyswitch to program change, and double clicked the MatrixCC button, but no drop down appeared, so i inputted '0' into the text box that appeared, the BOOM...sorted with the ability to change the CC's mate

Thanks again for your help....i'm off to experement!

Have a good one fella

Paul

Posted on Fri, Oct 19 2018 16:43
by stefan_telser
Joined on Wed, Mar 14 2007, Posts 113

Glad it helped. Have fun.

Stefan

Posted on Sat, Oct 20 2018 04:02
by GreenGoose58
Joined on Mon, Oct 15 2018, Posts 15

Stefan,

 

That was exactly what I was looking for! Thank you so much for the info.

 

And I thought I might add a bit of my sibelius knowledge to your implementation. You can edit the Playback dictionary in Sibelius and add the term "divisi" or "s2" as a CC change, so you don't have to write the CC changes manually every time or remember them (it will do it automatically). I have done something similar with noteperformer. 

 

I was just confused about the CC values VI uses and how sibelius would link to VI, but you have cleared that up. Thank you so much!

Posted on Sat, Oct 20 2018 07:12
by stefan_telser
Joined on Wed, Mar 14 2007, Posts 113

You're welcome.

Registration of the term "divisi" sounds very interesting. I suppose you have to edit the soundset for that? Or can you define it directly in the playbackdictionary?

Best Stefan

Posted on Sat, Oct 20 2018 17:37
by GreenGoose58
Joined on Mon, Oct 15 2018, Posts 15

Hey stefan!

 

You just create a new term and define it within the sibelius playback dictionary. To do this, just click the "new" button, name it what you want (ex. divisi, a2, etc.), set the effect to control change, and then configure the CC values to line up with what you need for VSL. Here is what my "a2" term and definition looks like defined for noteperformer. I will probably be making another template though for use with VSL with different CC values :)

 

https://imgur.com/a/GyPWZ6n

 

Hope I could help!

Posted on Sun, Oct 21 2018 09:09
by stefan_telser
Joined on Wed, Mar 14 2007, Posts 113

Thanks you so much.

Sibelius is really great. You can do/script so much stuff.

I love working with Sibelius and Vienna Ensemble Server.

Best Stefan

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