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Posted on Wed, Oct 24 2018 17:30
by Marcusmax
Joined on Mon, Apr 30 2012, Posts 48

As the title says. I have searched the forum but can see only one similar thread which points to page 51 of the manual. This doesn't explain what I am asking about, or seems to be only a small part of the solution.

I am setting up VEPro with Logic Pro X and therefore using an instance per instrument. Each instance can accomodate that instrument's articulations on its 16 channels. This is for a full orchestral template. Other options like the Multiport Templates etc. don't seem to be as viable as this setup, according to my research.

So I would like to be able to see all the instances at the same time in the VEPro mixer / channel list. Is there any way of doing that? I can see how to set it up so that all the channels of any particular instance are visible in the mixer but not all the instances.

Any help appreciated.  

Master: Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, 2x 500 GB internal HD's. PC Slave: 3.4 GHz i7, 32 GB RAM, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, VEPro 7, EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold and Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, VSL Epic Orchestra 2.0, BBO and multiple other libraries.
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 08:57
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13299

Hi Marcusmax, 

I'm afraid I don't see any other solution there at this point. Instances cannot be merged, visually. 

We are still waiting for the final fix for AUv3 within Logic, and this will open up a new world. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 14:06
by eirikbj
Joined on Wed, Nov 18 2015, Posts 29

Have you tried the Event Input plugin? I am running full multichanneled orchestra, one Instance per group (woods, brass etc...). One port per instrument.

Posted on Thu, Oct 25 2018 16:00
by Marcusmax
Joined on Mon, Apr 30 2012, Posts 48

Thanks for your reply Paul. Yes it seems that AU3 might be the answer to all our ills. ;) Looking forward to that new world!

Meanwhile eirikbj, no I haven't tried the Event Input. I have got the impression from reading around that all the workarounds don't really work properly! Leaving an instance-per-instrument as the best current solution for working with Logic but maybe I have got that wrong. I should mention that I'm using a slave setup with Logic on a Mac and VEPro on a PC slave. Would that make a differenc to how well your solution might work? I'll definitely look into this more though and may come back to you for more details if that's ok. Thanks again.

Master: Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, 2x 500 GB internal HD's. PC Slave: 3.4 GHz i7, 32 GB RAM, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, VEPro 7, EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold and Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, VSL Epic Orchestra 2.0, BBO and multiple other libraries.
Posted on Fri, Oct 26 2018 19:41
by Marcusmax
Joined on Mon, Apr 30 2012, Posts 48

I am trying to use the Event Input Plugin to get multiple midi ports with the one instance. I have set things up with the main VEPro plugin on one channel in Logic and the Event Input plugin on several others. These are all connected to one instance in the Server which has several channels running Play with a different port assigned to each channel. I have different instruments on each of the channels with the various articulations assigned to different midi channels within Play. I use SkiSwitcher to change between those articulations.

In Logic I have the I/O plugin on both the channel with the main plugin and the channels with the Event Input plugin, output enabled and bypassed as directed in the manual. This all works insofar as I can play the different instruments and their articulations. However when I play any of the instruments that have the Event input assigned to them, I get mostly hung notes or else the notes do not sound at all. This does not happen on the track which has the main VEPro plugin on it. I have inserted the Event Input plugin on tracks that were not set up as multi-timbral; don't know if that is contributing to this issue or not.

Can eirikbj or anyone else help me to see where I am going wrong with this? Thanks. 

Master: Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, 2x 500 GB internal HD's. PC Slave: 3.4 GHz i7, 32 GB RAM, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, VEPro 7, EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold and Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, VSL Epic Orchestra 2.0, BBO and multiple other libraries.
Posted on Sat, Oct 27 2018 19:58
by Marcusmax
Joined on Mon, Apr 30 2012, Posts 48

I seem to have resolved this for now by deleting the tracks in my Logic template which were dedicated to particular instruments within a family and replacing them with fresh ones. I don't seem to be geting hanged notes etc. anymore.

The problem I now have is to do with routing the audio from the Server channels back into the relevant tracks in Logic which have the Event Input plugin and the midi on them. I have posted about it in more detail here.

Is using the Event Input plugin in Logic as a way of getting multiple midi ports documented or explained anywhere? I find the manual is quite vague and minimal in this respect.

Anyway, if anyone can help with this I'd appreciate it. Thanks. 

Master: Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, 2x 500 GB internal HD's. PC Slave: 3.4 GHz i7, 32 GB RAM, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, VEPro 7, EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold and Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, VSL Epic Orchestra 2.0, BBO and multiple other libraries.
Posted on Sun, Oct 28 2018 17:23
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 877

Really looking forward to AU3.  In the meantime, try this: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=137085

Posted on Sun, Oct 28 2018 19:28
by Marcusmax
Joined on Mon, Apr 30 2012, Posts 48

Thanks but I'm not sure I want to go down the Multiport route as I've read a lot about it not being really viable. You've clearly put a lot of work into it though, reading through that thread. Would you say your latest version is a truly workable and stable solution for those of us who are not too keen on delving into Logic's Environment?! 

Master: Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, 2x 500 GB internal HD's. PC Slave: 3.4 GHz i7, 32 GB RAM, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, VEPro 7, EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold and Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, VSL Epic Orchestra 2.0, BBO and multiple other libraries.
Posted on Mon, Oct 29 2018 02:00
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 877
Originally Posted by: Marcusmax Go to Quoted Post
Thanks but I'm not sure I want to go down the Multiport route as I've read a lot about it not being really viable. You've clearly put a lot of work into it though, reading through that thread. Would you say your latest version is a truly workable and stable solution for those of us who are not too keen on delving into Logic's Environment?!


The origianal multiport macro got a bad rap because of bugs in Logic’s environment layer which Vsl may not have realized about. The version I made has worked around those bugs and I have been privately getting positive feedback about it. I can’t really say more until more people try to use it. Not many have because of the aforementioned bad rap from the previous buggy macro. I have not heard great things about the event input plugin either FWIW, also so pick your poison. If you want more then 16 channels per vep instance then for now you have to use one of those two approaches.

Logic still has a built in midi buffer limitation which I think would effect either scenario if you try to playback too many tracks through any one vep instance at the same time. I can’t remember why I decided not to use event input, but I have had decent results using the new multi port macro and a few people have sent me thank you notes, so it seems to be working. Give it a try and let me know!

Posted on Tue, Oct 30 2018 18:54
by Marcusmax
Joined on Mon, Apr 30 2012, Posts 48

I've just replied to your post over on VI-Control. Thanks for this anyway. As discussed there I'm probably best to stick with using a non-multiport approach. My next question is whether to continue to use an ordinary plugin or a multi in Logic.

If this doesn't work out I may well give your template a try!

Master: Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, 2x 500 GB internal HD's. PC Slave: 3.4 GHz i7, 32 GB RAM, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, VEPro 7, EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold and Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, VSL Epic Orchestra 2.0, BBO and multiple other libraries.
Posted on Tue, Oct 30 2018 19:25
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 877

One of the templates I put up is without using multiport by the way, I just set up the enviornment scaffolding for you to have 16 multis.  That gives you 256 tracks feeding 16 VEP instances with 16 channels each.   You can make it bigger pretty easily if you need it, but its just an easy template to get started if you want to use the environment approach to multi's

As I said on the other thread, it really comes down to what you can live with.  If you don't need super huge templates and don't care about having many VEP instances, then that can eliminate multiport as an option.  Another reason to use multiport would be if you need more than 16 articulations for any one instrument track from EWHollywood. You could, for example, use multiport, without using multis...still return single stereo feed representing just one virtual instrument, but using multiport to deal with more than 16 articulations.  I don't think skiswitcher could cope with that, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, if you don't care about super big templates, then remove that as a cocern.

Next concern is how many VEP instances do you want to wade through?   If you want less then 10, then you might still want to consider multiport.  If you are ok with around 20...then you can easily accomplish it without multiport, but still using some kind of LPX multi approach.  There are three ways to handle multis in LPX.  Pick your poison.  Another reason to use either multiport, or non-multiport-multis, is in order to be able to submix entire sections in VEP.  

Lastly, if you can live without big templates, and you can live with 50, 100 or more VEP instances, and can live without submixing in VEP, then you could do the single instrument per VEP instance approach, no multis at all.  There are definitely advantages, but you will be limited to 255 tracks, 500 channels of returning audio from VEP, 16 articulations per track and many VEP instances to wade through.

it just depends on which gotchas you can live with...

Here's a post I wrote a while back summarizing the pros/cons of different approaches to handling multis in LPX:

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=132635&p=697195&hilit=multi+bug#p697195

EDIT:  Another factor for you to consider is using skiswitcher.  I do not think it is multiport aware, so basically if you rely on that for articulation switching, then you need to forget multiport at all for now.  

Posted on Tue, Oct 30 2018 22:55
by Marcusmax
Joined on Mon, Apr 30 2012, Posts 48

Ok some great info there. Will also have a read through that thread and look into what SkiSwitcher can and cannot cope with as that is a hugely important part of my workflow.

Master: Mac Mini 2.0 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, 2x 500 GB internal HD's. PC Slave: 3.4 GHz i7, 32 GB RAM, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, VEPro 7, EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold and Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, VSL Epic Orchestra 2.0, BBO and multiple other libraries.
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