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Legato and Sustain Patches Usage
Last post Thu, Feb 21 2019 by LuCsa, 8 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Feb 07 2019 23:04
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Hello, I finally found some time again to play with my libraries and I stumbled again over an old question bugging me:

What are the most usual ways (since I guess that there's not the way...) to use the sustain, legato and legato-sus patches? (I'm using the special editions.)

I am aware that the legato patches provide 2 velocity layers, the sustains 3 and the legato-sus patches crossfade from the legato transitions into the sustain samples (implying that the end notes will always play the same samples, according to the manual).

I assume that the 2 layers in the legato patches concern the transitions... are the 3 velocity layers of the sustains still used in the legato patch? Or do I have to "decide" between "two legato layers or three velocity layers"?

Furthermore, it quite often happens that the the transition at a desired volume is either too soft or too harsh, thus, the desired volume level can't be reached by the use of vel-x-fade (alone). Do you then use CC11 to make the fine tuning? Or do you switch to the sustain patch for these intervals? (Or put differently "How would you control volume/timbre somewhat differently from the actual transition layer?").

I hope you can follow on my trains of thought and maybe provide some useful hints. :)

Thanks and good night,
Lukas

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
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Posted on Fri, Feb 08 2019 03:07
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 283
Legato blur and the VI Pro options that allow you to cut into the sample (the degree to which is determined by the “Start” fader) are helpful.
2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.6.3. Big Sur & Windows 10.
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Posted on Sun, Feb 10 2019 18:48
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Originally Posted by: stephen limbaugh Go to Quoted Post
Legato blur and the VI Pro options that allow you to cut into the sample (the degree to which is determined by the “Start” fader) are helpful.

Do you mean Attack, Release etc?

 

Any more thoughts and infos on this matter and the questions I raised? :) Any comment, insight and experience/tip is appreciated!

Cheers,
Lukas

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
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Posted on Mon, Feb 11 2019 05:41
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 283

So, in the advanced tab of VIpro's advanced view (the little tab right by edit and stretch) you will have an option for "Start Offset Mode."  Try selecting "leg" in that menu, and then fiddle with the "Start Offset" ms and the "Start Offset Attack" ms.

The "Start" fader located by the "attack" fader can then be used to control how much of that "Start Offset" effects the legato transition between notes.  

With the right settings, and each instrument/passage is different, you can remove that "harsh" or unmusical transition from note to note.

A number of users make multiple legato patches out of the stock legato articulation for each instrument... and each one may have a different Start Offset Mode to be triggered from repetations, the first note only, or even all.

Also by having multiple edited legato patches, different tuning/humanize settings will also help the performance "glide" from note to note in a much more convincing way.

I would begin your experiments with a string portamento, as it is the most obvious to hear when messing with the Start Offset.

Lastly, if you have an adagio passage of whole notes, save yourself the time and energy and do NOT use the legato articulations.... use the sustains and mess with attack/release.

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.6.3. Big Sur & Windows 10.
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Posted on Mon, Feb 11 2019 09:54
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

As with many other articulations I really have no use for legato sustains.  If you can achieve what you're trying to do without it, or without any other articulations for that matter, then don't bother with them.

What Stephen was saying about the start offset is good advice.  I've always felt that that one little feature in VI Pro is the best kept secret in the sample world because of all the variety you can create with just a few samples and variety is what makes MIDIstrations come alive.

However, one thing I haven't figured out is what's the difference between the start offset in Legato mode and legato blur?  


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
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Posted on Mon, Feb 11 2019 18:45
by stephen limbaugh
Joined on Tue, Feb 23 2016, Los Angeles, Posts 283

Originally Posted by: jasensmith Go to Quoted Post

However, one thing I haven't figured out is what's the difference between the start offset in Legato mode and legato blur?  

Legato Blur basically turns up the "volume" of the transition, whereas the Start Offset actually cuts into the sample.

2019 MacBook Pro, 8 core i9, 32gb RAM. Heavy Digital Audio PC slave, 6 core Xeon E5-1650, 128gb RAM. Logic 10.6.3. Big Sur & Windows 10.
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Posted on Tue, Feb 12 2019 09:42
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1582

That's good to know.  Thank you Stephen.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
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Posted on Thu, Feb 21 2019 18:24
by LuCsa
Joined on Sat, Dec 19 2015, Vienna, Posts 126

Originally Posted by: stephen limbaugh Go to Quoted Post

So, in the advanced tab of VIpro's advanced view (the little tab right by edit and stretch) you will have an option for "Start Offset Mode."  Try selecting "leg" in that menu, and then fiddle with the "Start Offset" ms and the "Start Offset Attack" ms.

The "Start" fader located by the "attack" fader can then be used to control how much of that "Start Offset" effects the legato transition between notes.  

With the right settings, and each instrument/passage is different, you can remove that "harsh" or unmusical transition from note to note.

A number of users make multiple legato patches out of the stock legato articulation for each instrument... and each one may have a different Start Offset Mode to be triggered from repetations, the first note only, or even all.

Also by having multiple edited legato patches, different tuning/humanize settings will also help the performance "glide" from note to note in a much more convincing way.

I would begin your experiments with a string portamento, as it is the most obvious to hear when messing with the Start Offset.

Lastly, if you have an adagio passage of whole notes, save yourself the time and energy and do NOT use the legato articulations.... use the sustains and mess with attack/release.

 

Thank you for that insight-ful information! I will try to play with these (and other settings). Are these also MIDI-controllable? So I don't need (worst case scenario) one cell per phrase so to say?
Also, how do you manage all the variations of patches/cells you create?

Kind regards,
Lukas

i7-6700K (4 @ 4.0GHz w/ HT) - 16GB RAM
Windows 10 Home 64bit - REAPER - Finale 2012 - Dorico
---
VI Pro 2 - VEP7 - MIRx Sage
SE1&2 - S-SE1&2 - SSP
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