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synchron vs VIPro
Last post Sun, Jun 23 2019 by DaddyO, 30 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Apr 09 2019 18:21
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 343

Has anyone done a comprehensive and detailed review of the precise differences between VIPro and Synchron as an instrument, aside from the obvious inclusion of Synchron ambience?

I presently only VSL Cube Full and am just getting into using it.  Considering picking up Dimension Strings on sale, but the question is, should I get the VIPro version or go with Synchronized version.  I also have MIRPro, so the ambience included with Synchron is not that interesting to me, other then perhaps easier operation, but really I am curious about the nitty gritty, I keep hearing that VIPro is more flexible and powerful then the synchron player, but they are usually vague comments and I'm not even sure if they are accurate.

who can list off exactly the pros and cons of the two different instrument players?  Both generally and in this case as it pertains to the Dimension series... 

I will have to become proficient at VIPro in any case with my Cube Full...and that is my plan, but just wondering if there would be any other advantages or disadvantages aside from ambience, to using the synchron player verison instead.  I'm looking for comprehensive and detailed explanations about the differences..I've already heard all the "speculations" on the internet.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Tue, Apr 09 2019 19:16
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 181

I would go for VI Pro, because there are some features I'm missing in the Synchron Player. I hope that these will come in a future update.

  • Stretch function: I don't use it often, but you can achieve variations.
  • Auto-Voicing: It's great for the Dimension series, but I would prefer an Auto-Divisi function (similar to LASS).
  • CC thresholds: The new controller curves in the Synchron Player are good, but I prefer fixed values (as in VI Pro) instead of percentages, e.g. faster legato at a value of 80. Actually, I like Synchron Player, because you can define the starting and the ending position of a CC. @VSL: Please make this available in VI Pro!!!
  • Interval map: This little feature is so important for me. With this I can imitate Spitfire's performance legato, because I can have a staccato/spiccato/marcato attack ONLY on the first note of a legato phrase. With the Synchron Player marcato presets you have the attack on EVERY single note. @VSL: Please make it available in the Synchron Player!!!

You can bypass the ambience in the Synchron Player and use the SYNCHRON-ized version in MIR Pro instead. The impulse responses are based on the MIR technology.

For me, one of the most positive thing is that the SYNCHRON-ized libraries are less expensive and you get the full library, e.g. Dimension Strings I.

Posted on Tue, Apr 09 2019 19:19
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 343

with the current sales the VIPro version of the Dimensions Strings full bundle appears less expensive then getting Synchron, but a few hundred bucks.  Its close either way, that will not be the determining factor...

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Wed, Apr 10 2019 01:28
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5339

Based on your previous use of VI you should definitely go for the VI version, since it is the "native" and original version.  Synchron is an adaptation and processing  of  the original sound which was not recorded on that stage.  So the Syncrhon version is more for people who are exclusively using Synchron products and don't want to deal with VI, or  for people who are using BOTH VI and Synchron and want to include it with their Synchron library. 

The nice thing about the VI version is you can already use the MIR Synchron stage with it, as well as all the other MIR environments, or any other reverb in existence.    

Posted on Wed, Apr 10 2019 08:03
by fatis12_24918
Joined on Sat, Dec 16 2006, Posts 259

1 more vote for VI Pro.

I own Dimension strings in both versions, and I can confirm that synchron player provide some pros (e.g. the tree structure is a bit more agile and elegant in managing the whole set of articulations by player and by groups, and VSL is working hard to make synchron player more powerful from audio streaming and processing point of view as well) but as pixelpoet explained, VI Pro is still more powerful in midi processing and is a perfect integration in MIR Pro ambience and mixing system.

Then based on your profile, I would recommend you go for VI Pro.

In case you want to test synchron player features and performance, by the way, you may check Epic Orchestra 2.0, a product designed to demo the synchron set at a very affordable price, and included in VE Pro 7 offers.
Posted on Wed, Apr 10 2019 22:28
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires. MA USA, Posts 900

I think this is a tricky question, as VSL has giving no information on their direction in the future. I don't disagree whith what others have said, but also think that the synchron player is where future inoviation will be.

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.0.2
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Wed, Apr 10 2019 23:21
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 343

Originally Posted by: Bill Go to Quoted Post

I think this is a tricky question, as VSL has giving no information on their direction in the future. I don't disagree whith what others have said, but also think that the synchron player is where future inoviation will be.

It IS a tricky question.  But its already done.  Bought DimStrings 1-3 today.  I'm a power type of user and I like the capabilties that some of you have mentioned about VIPro.  Actually what motivated me to buy VSL Cube to begin with this year was specfically the VIPro player and all the extra control it has, I feel above and beyond any other orchestral instrument on the market.  That was a huge selling point for me.  I also like the silent stage and mir pro approach.  If I wanted wet libraries I most likely would not have bought VSL at all.

It is a little troubling wondering what VSL is going to do with the VIPro line, but unless/until the synchron player can do everything the VIPro player can do (and more), there will be no point in moving that direction away from ViPro and I don't think it will go away.  Would be nice if VIPro got a bit of a facelift to look like Synchron and perhaps benefit from some of the technological advances they may be coming up with, but its hardly worth $100 per library to upgrade to the Synchron player, especially if, like me, you already have MirPro and the Synchron mirpack.   What VSL should do is rather then "synchronizing" all the libraries and charging $100+ per library to get Synchronized verisons..that are not even as full featured...  they should catch the syncrhon player up to all the features ViPro has, and able to read the Cube librares unchanged...then charge for Synchron Player Pro...like an upgrade from the ViPro instrument...not having to upgrade all your libraries the way they have done it.  The way they have done it is not interesitng to me at all...and nor is the syncron player until it can do everything VIPro can do and more..and even then, if they insist that I would have to buy upgraded libraries at what would probably amount to over $1000 to upgrade everything I have....I just can't see the value being there to be worth it.

Anyway, there it is...I have dim stirngs now.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Thu, Apr 11 2019 18:01
by littlewierdo
Joined on Sun, Apr 24 2016, Posts 178

And VSL could completely eliminate the confusion by simply making Instruments and Synchron capable of loading any of their libraries (ie. Synchron can load VI libraries and VI can load Synchron libraries). Im not going to stop pushing this idea because Vienna has successfully created angst amongst their user base. For me personally, Im not buying any other major instruments until I know what direction they are going. This insane push to use the Synchron player is so obnoxious to me. I hate the UI, it is completely unintuitive. I use it once in awhile. It looks like a fisher price toy. Perhaps, if I were using it on a touch screen, that might be an application for that kind of UI but otherwise, no thanks. The colour scheme is awful as well.

THE reason I started my library with Vienna was the dry samples and Instruments Pro. Powerful, unique, something no one else was doing. The matrix idea completely clicked with me. I wrote a song within 5 hours of downloading my first bit of sound fonts. Setting up the articulations was a piece of cake. Do I wish the UI scaled in VI? Yep. That is probably the only major thing about VI that needs an update. Running it on a 4k screen is, well, shall we say, I hope you have your telescope handy.

Stop forcing us to choose a playback engine and which version of sounds we want to purchase. If you like Synchron, you should be able to use it with all things Vienna. If you like VI Pro, yoiu should be able to use it with all things Vienna.

Im going back to my hole now, I think I broke my soap box :(

Posted on Fri, Apr 12 2019 09:36
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 181

Unfortunately, there will always be two dedicated library versions, because ...

1) ... both players have specific file sytems; they aren't interchangeable
2) ... VI Pro hasn't the streaming power of Synchron Player
3) ... VI Pro can't handle microphone positions (which are available in Synchron libraries)

I think that there still will be both players in the future. VSL mentioned that there will be more libraries for VI Pro, take Dimension Strings III as an example. Synchron Player is for users who don't have MIR Pro and don't want to deal with positioning, in my opinion.

I also don't like Synchron Player in general, the UI is horrible, but everyone has a different taste. :)

Posted on Sat, Apr 13 2019 01:08
by littlewierdo
Joined on Sun, Apr 24 2016, Posts 178

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

Unfortunately, there will always be two dedicated library versions, because ...

1) ... both players have specific file sytems; they aren't interchangeable
2) ... VI Pro hasn't the streaming power of Synchron Player
3) ... VI Pro can't handle microphone positions (which are available in Synchron libraries)

I think that there still will be both players in the future. VSL mentioned that there will be more libraries for VI Pro, take Dimension Strings III as an example. Synchron Player is for users who don't have MIR Pro and don't want to deal with positioning, in my opinion.

I also don't like Synchron Player in general, the UI is horrible, but everyone has a different taste. :)

1) No reason both players cannot understand two different file systems. Winzip understands over a hundred zip file formats.

2) Not sure what you mean by streaming power. Both players load samples into memory, neither player streams data.

3) There is no reason VIPro cant be modified to handle microphone positions, or maybe shuttled off to the MIR Pro engine. Honestly, its high time that the MIR Pro engine should be free anyway, especially considering you cant do anything with the engine itself. Yes, MIR Pro would have to be upgraded to support more than two microphone positions, however, I consider that a huge bonus, one that MIR Pro desperately needs. Compared to other convolution reverbs on the market, the lack of more than 2 microphone positions leaves MIR Pro a bit behind. This isnt to say MIR Pro isnt amazing, but it certainly needs an upgrade in number of mic placement positions.

Posted on Sat, Apr 13 2019 07:02
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 439
2) Pixelpoet talked about streaming from SSD. Your instruments are never fully loaded into RAM.
Ben | Cubase 9.5 Pro | Win 10 1809 | i5 8600k @4.4 GHz, 32GB DDR4
Posted on Sat, Apr 13 2019 20:45
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 181

Actually, I don't know the technical details, I was just recalling what I still know about it. Synchron Player has an all-new, more powerful engine than VI Pro.

Go to the product page of the Synchron Player. The introduction text answers all the questions.

Posted on Sun, Apr 14 2019 12:34
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7234

 

Sorry that I'll take this thread OT for a moment ...

Originally Posted by: littlewierdo Go to Quoted Post
[...] Honestly, its high time that the MIR Pro engine should be free anyway, especially considering you cant do anything with the engine itself. Yes, MIR Pro would have to be upgraded to support more than two microphone positions, however, I consider that a huge bonus, one that MIR Pro desperately needs. Compared to other convolution reverbs on the market, the lack of more than 2 microphone positions leaves MIR Pro a bit behind. This isnt to say MIR Pro isnt amazing, but it certainly needs an upgrade in number of mic placement positions.

Great to hear that you like MIR Pro! I know that there is always room for improvement, but let's get a few things straight:

- MIR as a whole "thinks" Ambisonics, thus you can de-code up to eight individual microphone capsules of both microphone positions. Most Venues offer four (at least three) Main Mic positions you can choose from, some of them oriented in more than one main axis.

- After all these years there is still not a single competitor's product on the market which is able to deal with literally thousands of individual impulse responses from a real stage or studio, allowing for free source-placement and rotation (of both the source and the microphones!) - let alone in (close to) real-time.

- Plus, there is no comparable (IR-based) product which is able to take into account the directivity of the recorded sources, much less the actually measured frequency profiles of real instruments.

... I would _love_ to make MIR a free product, but looking at the 15+ years of development which were necessary to realize the features mentioned above (and all the other ones, too), I would say that it's highly unlikely this will happen any time soon.

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 01:28
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5339

"Compared to other convolution reverbs on the market, the lack of more than 2 microphone positions leaves MIR Pro a bit behind. " - littleweirdo

That is absurd

MIR is so much better than  other reverb/acoustic environments.  There is nothing that even remotely compares in sound quality, in flexibility, in ease of use.  A total non-engineer musician can use it easily to create a world-class mix.  It is the only one perfectly designed for orchestral sound mixing.  And the microphone positions are adjustable from many different perspectives. 

Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 01:29
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 343

+1

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 02:17
by C.B.
Joined on Wed, Aug 11 2010, Quebec Canada, Posts 115
by littlewierdo

« ... Compared to other convolution reverbs on the market, .
 »

MIR is not another simple convolution reverb at all! Did you try it ? This is certainly one of VSL's crown jewels. It was a brilliant idea that has become an environment of musical creation of great elegance and amazing efficiency.

Claude B.
C.B.
Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 05:13
by antcarrier
Joined on Fri, Sep 24 2010, Sunshine Coast, Australia, Posts 60
MIR Pro is one of the most powerful plugins ever created. It is much more than a reverb plugin. It leaves most other reverbs I have tried in the dust. It is unrealistic to expect a project like MIR to be free.
Posted on Mon, Apr 15 2019 07:27
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7234

Thanks everybody for chiming in - no need to get angry, though! MIR is the industry's best-kept secret for one reason or the other, so its Ins and Outs are not necessarily common knowledge. ;-)

Kind regards,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, May 10 2019 22:23
by V_ad_im
Joined on Fri, Feb 25 2011, Posts 116

Also, there is a difference between humanize delay in SY and ViPro with same values (see and listen att. files)

File Attachment(s):
HumanizeU0020delayU0020differenceU00201_SYnzU00202_ViPro.mp3 (586kb) downloaded 32 time(s).
V_ad_im attached the following image(s):
ScreenU0020ShotU00202019-05-11U0020atU002001.12.06.JPG (17kb) downloaded 2 time(s).
SYU0020values.jpg (12kb) downloaded 1 time(s).
ViProU0020values.jpg (11kb) downloaded 1 time(s).

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Posted on Mon, May 13 2019 12:55
by ronaudio_13968
Joined on Tue, May 03 2005, Posts 39

Hello

My Reasen for buying Synchron Player was the abelity to use (finally) AFTERTOUCH.

And its new possibilitys in the DIM/Ctr.. Now you can manage more then 2 (VI Pro) Matrices with the "SlotX/Fade".

The Handling of the "Matrix" (VI Pro) in SP is in my Opinion better.

But the Upgrade Price for the Libs should be more fair.

MIR is Great, espacialy in conjunction with VEP6. I use it also as Digital FX-Rack (as "Send-effect") in live Situations.

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