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Time-Stretching: Progessive Vibrato
Last post Wed, Apr 17 2019 by civilization 3, 8 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Apr 10 2019 19:23
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 146

Hi,

is it possible to time-stretch the progressive vibrato legato patches in Dimension Strings or Appassionata Strings? It would be nice to have especially [EDIT] faster variations, so that the vibrato comes in earlier.

Posted on Fri, Apr 12 2019 11:27
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 298
I recognize the need. The patches could be more useful in faster tempi.
Posted on Fri, Apr 12 2019 16:22
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 146

Not only in faster tempi, even the normal version is way too slow for my taste. Beyond time-stretching it would be great if the length could be controlled by a CC or that it adapts to your playing speed.

Posted on Fri, Apr 12 2019 17:55
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 298

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

Beyond time-stretching it would be great if the length could be controlled by a CC or that it adapts to your playing speed.

Probably needless to say: there is of course the possibility of Xfade from a non vibrato patch to a vibrato patch, but I suppose you know this and you should prefer the cleaner way of adapt the length of the non vibrato part of a progressive vibrato patch.

Posted on Fri, Apr 12 2019 19:47
by littlewierdo
Joined on Sun, Apr 24 2016, Posts 158

Im using the Special Edition patches and I cant use any of the solo instruments for this reason. In fact, so many solo instrument libraries have exactly the same vibrato for every note. It drives me nuts. Every note sounds exactly the same. Vibrato is a powerful expressive tool that musicians use to express emotion. I use this video all the time to really demonstrate this, this is a video of a solo violin and a solo oboe backed by a full orchestra playing the theme to Schindlers List. Watch the violin player carefully, some notes, there is absolutely zero vibrato, some notes, vibrato starts at the beginning of the note, some notes, vibrato progressively increases or decreases over the duration of the note, and not all notes start with vibrato, and some notes start with vibrato and end straight. The point is, no solo string library on the market is allowing this kind of expressive control that Im aware of, I suspect because of the purity argument. That is, in order to do this, the mod wheel would have to control vibrato speed, and some other CC would have to control vibrato depth. Vibrato would have to be artifically created (that is, every note is recorded flat with no vibrato and all vibrato would be algorithmically generated).

Some libraries allow some flexibility in this regard, Chris Hein's library allows you to preprogram 4 notes with speed, depth, and start / stop times on the vibrato, but only for four variations.

Schindlers List Theme

Posted on Fri, Apr 12 2019 20:18
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 146

@MMKA
Of course I know the xfade option, but it's way more musical and expressive to use the progressive vibrato patch. For the same reasons there are also so many dynamic patches (pfp etc.). You can't imitate them with just crossfading. 

@littlewierdo
I know what you mean, but virtual instruments (if not modelled) have their limits, especially with vibrato. There are so many different vibrato styles (slow, fast, narrow, wide and all combinations of them) as you described. For me, a progressive vibrato patch comes closer to reality than any crossfading. I'm not a fan of virtually created vibrato, but I like the concept of the Friedlander Violin (Embertone).

Posted on Sat, Apr 13 2019 15:15
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1450

Originally Posted by: littlewierdo Go to Quoted Post

Im using the Special Edition patches and I cant use any of the solo instruments for this reason. In fact, so many solo instrument libraries have exactly the same vibrato for every note. It drives me nuts. Every note sounds exactly the same. Vibrato is a powerful expressive tool that musicians use to express emotion. I use this video all the time to really demonstrate this, this is a video of a solo violin and a solo oboe backed by a full orchestra playing the theme to Schindlers List. Watch the violin player carefully, some notes, there is absolutely zero vibrato, some notes, vibrato starts at the beginning of the note, some notes, vibrato progressively increases or decreases over the duration of the note, and not all notes start with vibrato, and some notes start with vibrato and end straight. The point is, no solo string library on the market is allowing this kind of expressive control that Im aware of, I suspect because of the purity argument. That is, in order to do this, the mod wheel would have to control vibrato speed, and some other CC would have to control vibrato depth. Vibrato would have to be artifically created (that is, every note is recorded flat with no vibrato and all vibrato would be algorithmically generated).

Some libraries allow some flexibility in this regard, Chris Hein's library allows you to preprogram 4 notes with speed, depth, and start / stop times on the vibrato, but only for four variations.

Schindlers List Theme


Well, apart from SE which may be just that limited, we use the different vibratos in the libraries; mentioned here was crossfading slots to get some variation still holding one note. 

The fully articulated libraries have choices of vibrato, then dynamics patches with an evolving vibrato over those times, then in VI Pro there's time stretching. I don't have a Dimension Strings product, is it not in VI Pro with the time stretching? The first type is suited for strings. I wouldn't go past 15% +/- personally.

 I don't expect VSL to start doing that artificial kind of vibrato trick anytime soon, if ever. 

"Purity argument", whatever, these libraries are after realism and a generated vibrato glommed onto notes ia anything but that. 

MacBook Pro 2.6GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.4
Posted on Wed, Apr 17 2019 18:43
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1450

Anyway, if it's the original Dimension Strings in VI Pro, you have time stretching for this.

 

I'm all for as much vibrato variation in a product as possible. It tends to cost more.

MacBook Pro 2.6GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.4
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