Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
Orchestral Strings - VIOLINS 2
Last post Thu, May 09 2019 by William, 8 replies.
Options
Go to last post
Posted on Sat, May 04 2019 09:13
by Thorsteinn
Joined on Thu, Sep 22 2016, Posts 3

Hi,

   I recently bought the Orchestral Strings bundle and have a question regarding one of the sections under Patches.  In the "Violins Orchestra" section, there is a sub-section labelled "90 VIOLINS 2".  It is a small section with limited set of articulations.  It doesn't appear to be documented in the manual.  Are they intended to be used as 2nd Violins?

    Many thanks

          Thorsteinn

Posted on Sat, May 04 2019 09:48
by jasensmith
Joined on Tue, Jan 15 2008, Arizona, Posts 1481

I can't answer your question directly but I do believe VSL never recorded a 2nd Violin section for Orch. Strings.  Not sure what "90 VIOLINS 2" refers to.


"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it."
- W.C. Fields
Posted on Sat, May 04 2019 09:49
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 428

Hi Thorsteinn,

his is just the first violin, shifted and pitched so there won't be phasing issues when first and second violin are playing the same note.
You can achieve the same result by transposing all notes by a full tone up or down and using the pitch wheel in the other direction. I use the Midi-modifier plugin in Cubase for that. If you use Cubase I could give you the settings for that.

Best, Ben

Ben | Cubase 9.5 Pro | Win 10 1809 | i5 8600k @4.4 GHz, 32GB DDR4
Posted on Sat, May 04 2019 15:53
by Thorsteinn
Joined on Thu, Sep 22 2016, Posts 3

Originally Posted by: bbelius Go to Quoted Post

Hi Thorsteinn,

his is just the first violin, shifted and pitched so there won't be phasing issues when first and second violin are playing the same note.
You can achieve the same result by transposing all notes by a full tone up or down and using the pitch wheel in the other direction. I use the Midi-modifier plugin in Cubase for that. If you use Cubase I could give you the settings for that.

Best, Ben

Thank you guys for your response.  Thanks Ben for the clarification and offering to share your settings.  I am using Logic so I suspect I won't be able to make use of it.  I'll see if I can find a workaround to create a second violin using the transpose technique in Logic.

     All the best

           T.

Posted on Wed, May 08 2019 20:14
by Beat Kaufmann
Joined on Fri, Jan 03 2003, Switzerland/Brugg, Posts 1714

Hi Thorsteinn

To break down the problem of "missing 2nd violin" a bit more: The meaning of VSL in the libraries of the first generation (Chamber, Solo, Orchestra, Appassionata) was that violin 1 and 2 are played both times with the same violin library. That's no problem, because you can break the second violin to another position on the stage. The sound of the libraries is so neutral and good that it does not stand out at all if both violins are played with the same library. 

So far so good. But you can not do something with this situation, namely when violins 1 and 2 play the same note, it does not sound as if two different violins (-ensembles) are playing this same tone.
One manages the trick that Ben has mentioned above for playing two different samples at the same tone. This gives us the desired result, despite only one library.

You transpose the midi track down and on the VI player you transpose the sound back up on the audio side - or vice versa. Here you can find out how it works.

Because the SE libraries only have samples each whole note, you have to transpose the midi notes +/- 1 whole tone - otherwise you don't get a new sample.
All other libraries are sampled in semitone steps. So you could also transpose +/- semitones.

There are users who always play the 2nd violin with the this trick (samples of the 1st generation) to get a slightly different character.

--------------------------

Later, VSL then offered the Dimension strings that can divide themselves within the sections, by recording individual strings, which can be played as an ensemble, string groups or individually. So "Divisi" is possible.  This library included for the first time a "real recorded 2nd violin".
The Synchron-Strings" library now contains 2nd violins as well. The "Synchronized Versions" were probably prepared by VSL itself so that a quasi-2nd violin was created from the originally Violin Libraries.

-------------------------

Technically, of course, it is better to be able to use a real second violin. However, the fact is that most users program the samples so badly that these errors reveal much faster that the music is played with samples than the fact that both violins are played with the same samples. Producing music with samples is also a highly technical matter. That is why many enthusiastic technicians are involved in this interesting hobby as well. Above all, the technical side is very important to this group. Fortunately, VSL has covered all wishes over time.

All the best and a lot of success

Beat

www.musik-produktion-createc.ch (Konzertaufnahmen, Musik mit Samples)
at www.beat-kaufmann.com : MIXING an ORCHESTRA - TUTORIAL
Posted on Wed, May 08 2019 20:48
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5335

That's a good summary by Beat Kaufmann.

I would add that it is a little better to pitch shift down and transpose up when creating a second violin out of 1st. The reason is that vibrato is slowed a tiny bit, instead of sped up nervously.  Also the sound is a tiny bit darker which is desirable with sampled violins that always tend to be too bright.

Posted on Thu, May 09 2019 15:01
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 405

The Violins 2 patches are very useful, and way easier to use than any transposition/pitch shifting trick.

There is no preset made with them, but making your own is easy. Just duplicate the Violins 1 preset, then replace all the available Violin 2 patches to the Violin 1 patches in the duplicated preset.

Paolo

Posted on Thu, May 09 2019 23:27
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5335

Yes I started using the 2nd violins patches with all of the strings - they are in Solo, Chamber, Orchestral and Appassionata - and rarely encountered the unusual situation of an articulation not being there, though there are some that are not converted. Mainly dynamics.  

You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.