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  4. [SOLVED] A question about voice leading and stereo image - all guidance/tips are appreciated!

  • [SOLVED] A question about voice leading and stereo image - all guidance/tips are appreciated!

    S
    S

    First off, let me say that these libraries (VI series, in my case) are a godsend to a learning composer like myself.  Thank you VSL for the amazing attention to detail and thank you all users who contribute their knowledge that help newcomers like myself!  I couldn't ask for better tools/resources.

    Now, to my question:  Simply put, how can I write intersecting contrapuntal lines without messing up the stereo image?

    I'll explain.  I write two contrapuntal lines with two solo instruments that, at one point in the music, intersect on the same note.  What I'm noticing is that no matter what I do or what instruments I use, the stereo image will collapse and it will sound like the instruments merge into one instrument and occupy the same space.

    I've experimented with the transposition trick, using different samples, different articulations and even different instruments of wildly different timbres!  But even when I have, say, a viola and a bassoon playing contrapuntally and then intersecting on the same pitch this occurs to a distracting extent.

    To be clear, I'm aware that melody lines that go from contrary to unison by their very nature make the individual voices lose their sense of musical independence.  That's not what I'm talking about.  If I'm right smack inbetween two violinists playing (real life equivalent of panning hard right and left) and they go from different pitches to the same pitch, they don't magically teleport to the same physical location right in front of me.  Yet this is exactly the impression I get in the digital realm. 

    Hopefully, there's a way to circumvent this.  If not, there's always creativity to be found in limitation :).  I've puzzled away at this for ages and any help in figuring this out would be seriously appreciated!  

    Thanks in advance!

    Peace,

    - Sam
  • stephen limbaughS
    stephen limbaughS

    I'm unable to reproduce this... can you upload a sample of what you're talking about?

    Is this happening in MIR Pro?  Or just panning in your DAW?
  • stephen limbaughS
    stephen limbaughS

    Also, just another tip for L/R stuff, research the Haas effect. :)
  • C
    C

    That's pretty weird. Are these two parts clearly panned differently?
    It strikes me as an aural illusion. I write monophonic parts almost always, linear and contrapuntally and there is no such behavior ever or anything like it. But I pan using a power panner rather than MIDI pan, which is problematic because all the does is turn the volume down on the other side in reality. Still, that makes no sense objectively.
  • S
    S
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    @civilization 3 said:

    That's pretty weird. Are these two parts clearly panned differently?
    It strikes me as an aural illusion. I write monophonic parts almost always, linear and contrapuntally and there is no such behavior ever or anything like it. But I pan using a power panner rather than MIDI pan, which is problematic because all the does is turn the volume down on the other side in reality. Still, that makes no sense objectively.

    As I was mocking up something to illustrate this your comment about an aural illusion got me thinking and I figured out what was going on!

    I noticed that the more dry signal vs. reverb I used, the less this "phenomenon" occurred.  This is because both signals were sent to one Aux Reverb that was centered and fully wide.  Therefore, when I turned it to fully wet, all sound was coming from the center.  In that context, it makes perfect sense that two different pitches are going to sound more separate than two similar pitches, especially when they share timbral similarities.  By separating the ER and Tail into separate busses, I was able to keep the sense of space consistent regardless of where the lines went.

    Regardless, thanks for your input and spurring on the finding of the solution!

    EDIT: I should mention that I panned the ER busses to correspond with the dry signal panning for anyone reading this after the fact.
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    @stephen limbaugh said:

    Also, just another tip for L/R stuff, research the Haas effect. 😊

    Knowledge worth its weight in gold.  Thank you for the advice!