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What is the status of Beta AU 3 with Logic 10.4.5
Last post Sat, Jun 29 2019 by Dewdman42, 14 replies.
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Posted on Thu, Jun 27 2019 17:51
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2699

Hello

Did Apple fixed all the problems with AU 3 ?

Best

Cyril

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd

Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2019 01:40
by C.B.
Joined on Wed, Aug 11 2010, Quebec Canada, Posts 129

(English translation below)

 

J'ai bien peur que non Cyril. Et c'est bien frustrant. 

 

Il semble que l'intégration des AU3 (dans Logic en particulier) soit encore inachevée. Si on peut utiliser des ports désormais, ils sont limités à 8 par instance et chaque port ne donne accès qu'à 16 canaux. Ça ne serait pas si mal si l'intégration était complétée, mais plusieurs briques de Logic ne gèrent toujours pas les ports. Le Scripter par exemple, qui est important pour moi en raison de l'utilisation d’ART Pro de Audio Grocery. Je pourrais sans doute me rabattre le système d'articulation de Logic, mais je préfère voir les changements en texte sur les régions midi.

 

Après plusieurs essais infructueux avec les AU3, j'ai donc décidé de conserver mon approche actuelle (pour un temps du moins). J'utilise les outils de AG avec des instruments multitimbraux de Logic VEP et les VEP Event Input (une instance par port). Ça me donne un maximum de 48 ports avec 16 canaux chacun. Donc, en pratique, 48 instruments multi-timbraux (pour un total de 768 instruments). Je dois, évidemment, prendre bien soin d'insérer un plug-in I/O de Logic sur chaqe instrument multitimbral sinon ça dérape complètement! Par ailleurs, j'ai eu souvent des soucis (latence, problème de synchronisation) lorsque j'utilisais des pistes audio en même temps que mes instruments VIP avec VEP/MIR. Mais Logic accepte mieux depuis l'année dernière cette dernière astuce imaginée par Vienna (à l'époque de VEP4, si ma mémoire est exacte).

 

Il faudra être à nouveau patient…

 

C.

 

=======

I'm afraid not Cyril. And it's very frustrating.

 

It seems that the integration of UA3 (in Logic in particular) is still incomplete. If we can use ports now, they are limited to 8 per instance and each port only gives access to 16 channels. It would not be so bad if the integration was completed, but several bricks of the software still do not handle the ports. The Scripter for example, which is important to me because of the use of ART Pro from Audio Grocery. I could rely on Logic's articulation system, but I prefer to see the text changes over the midi regions.

 

After several unsuccessful attempts with the AU3, I decided to keep my current approach (for a time at least). I use AG tools with Logic VEP multitimbral instruments and VEP Event Input (one instance per port). It gives me a maximum of 48 ports with 16 channels each. So, in practice, 48 multi-timbral instruments (for a total of 768 instruments). I must, of course, take care to insert a plug-in I / O of Logic on each multi-instrument or else it completely derails! In addition, I often had problems (latency, synchronization problems) when I used audio tracks at the same time as my VIP instruments with VEP / MIR. But Logic agrees better since last year this trick conceived by Vienna (at the time of VEP4, if my memory is correct).

 

It will be necessary to be patient again ...

 

 

C.

C.B.
Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2019 06:06
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 809

Originally Posted by: Cyril Blanc Go to Quoted Post

Hello

Did Apple fixed all the problems with AU 3 ?

Best

Cyril

which problems specifically are you referring to?  Its working great for me.    But Scripter is completely broken in 10.4.5, so its kind of a moot point if you depend on that for articulation management.

But VEP AU3 is working absolutely great, no problems here at all, very nice performance too.

The only downside is that LogicPro, which previously already did not have the great multi-timbral instrument workflow, is now in 10.4.5 even more messy when you start getting into multiple ports via AU3.  You pretty much *HAVE* to use a starting template with a lot of environment object-precreated for you.  Well you don't have to, but you'd need to be versatle enough to use the environment to setup 127 tracks per VEP instance.  VSL has provided some starting templates so you don't have to and they work great.  I'm not having any problems with them at all.  I have an expanded version of those template I have shared here with 1270 tracks into 10 VEP instances...its also working perfectly fine for me.

LogicPro however, needs to be improved in terms of usability for setting up multi-timbral tracks with more than 16 parts, across multiple ports, etc..  Right now you have to get your hands dirty in the enviornment or use one of the templates mentioned above.  And they totally broke Scripter, but I digress..

Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2019 06:10
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 809

Originally Posted by: C.B. Go to Quoted Post

I'm afraid not Cyril. And it's very frustrating.

 

It seems that the integration of UA3 (in Logic in particular) is still incomplete. If we can use ports now, they are limited to 8 per instance and each port only gives access to 16 channels. It would not be so bad if the integration was completed, but several bricks of the software still do not handle the ports. The Scripter for example, which is important to me because of the use of ART Pro from Audio Grocery. I could rely on Logic's articulation system, but I prefer to see the text changes over the midi regions.

 

FYI, Scripter has already been updated to be port-aware.  This is great news.  Unfortunately they entirely broke Scripter in other ways in 10.4.5, and in my opinion it should not be trusted at all in 10.4.5, hopefully they will fix those bugs in 10.4.6.  

 

Other parts of the enviornment, however, are not port-aware.

 

But if you setup Multi-timbral AU3 enviornment strips, like VSL's templates, then you will see a port parameter in track properties and it totally works fine.  Yes you're limited to 8 ports of 16 (minus one).  So 127 tracks per VEP instance, which is not 768 like Cubase and StudioOne and DP...but its sure better then what we had before with only single port of 16 channels.

 

 

Quote:

After several unsuccessful attempts with the AU3, I decided to keep my current approach (for a time at least).

 

what went wrong?  its working very well for me.

Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2019 07:54
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2699

Hi

I have my own big templates using IAC or 

Do I move them to AU3, this is the question !

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd

Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2019 15:27
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 809

Originally Posted by: Cyril Blanc Go to Quoted Post

Hi

I have my own big templates using IAC or 

Do I move them to AU3, this is the question !

Apple has clearly been making changes to LogicPro to support AU3.  There are still some more changes needed, but I think that is the general direction things are going.  I don't know what you're doing with IAC?  But I feel very good about discontinuing any further effort with the multi-port enviornment macros I was using before for my LPX-VEP templates.

I can say that if you can live with 127 tracks per VEP instance, what is there now in place works quite well you just need to start out with one of the templates, or create a bunch of channel strip objects in the enivornment on the fly as you build up your own template.  I don't know why anyone wouldn't use VEP AU3 honestly, but if you want more than 127 tracks per VEP instance, then maybe not.

Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2019 23:17
by A.G
Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2014, Posts 25

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post
But Scripter is completely broken in 10.4.5, so its kind of a moot point if you depend on that for articulation management.

Excuse me Dewdman but you publish incorrect information based on your own opinion. I do not agree that the Scripter is "completely broken" in Logic 10.4.5 (I noted you published that wrong info in several forums).

The Scripter is OK and 100% working with custom Java programming which is well done. For example, AG Articulation Switcher (Scripter 6.3) works as a charm with Logic 10.4.5, including Text Points automation, Art Ids, Text+IDs (Combo) etc.

There are tousands AG Users, and no one has reported any problems with Logic 10.4.5 AG Scripter yet. As far as I remember you are an ART Pro 6.3 user as well, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2019 23:37
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 809

Sorry AG, you don't know what you are talking about.  Yes Scripter is completely broken in 10.4.5 in a very fundamental way and is easily susceptible to event data corruption.  There are certainly possibilities that scripts might accidentally work ok without running into the problems in 10.4.5 Scripter, but its very broken in a very fundamental way.  If you have extensively tested your own scripts and are confident that your scripts are somehow not running into these problems than I take you at your word, but what I am saying is absolutely correct about Scripter being broken in 10.4.5 in a very fundamental way.  I find it hard to believe that your scripts are not runing into problems also, but hey...maybe they aren't, that's great news for your users, but still Scripter 10.4.5 is very much badly broken in 10.4.5 and if anyone is dependent on scripting for their work I would highly reccomend they stay on 10.4.4 for now.

Are you even aware of what the Scripter bugs are in 10.4.5 in order to be sure your own scripts are not suffering from the discovered data corruption?

You can read more information here:

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=142778

I highly encourage you to test  your scripts very thoroughly, try many situations and make sure it is actually doing what it is supposed to do in all situations, because without question the Scripter 10.4.5 engine is very broken.

Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2019 23:38
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 809

And by the way, Scripter uses Javascript, not Java.

Posted on Fri, Jun 28 2019 23:41
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 809

and no I am not using your product.  I purchased it and immediately discovered it was not sufficient for my needs. I asked you for a refund and you said no.  So technically I am a registered paying customer, but I am not using it and will not be.  I'm glad to hear that apparantly your users are not being negatively effected by the horrible bugs in 10.4.5 Scripter.  Hopefully you are looking into the bugs I have documented and are checking to make sure your scripts are not running into them.

Posted on Sat, Jun 29 2019 00:10
by A.G
Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2014, Posts 25

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post
Hopefully you are looking into the bugs I have documented and are checking to make sure your scripts are not running into them.

There are no bugs in AG Articulation Switcher (Scripter) runing under Logic 10.4.5. Your documented bugs are out of the party here. As I mentioned there are tousands of AG users who can confirm that.

Posted on Sat, Jun 29 2019 00:12
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 809

I haven't stated anything about AG.  I am stating emphatically that Scripter 10.4.5 has fundamental serious bugs that are very easy to cause event data corruption.  If your AG scripts are somehow by sheer luck missing those bugs, than as I said that is great news for your users.   This is way off topic of the thread.

Posted on Sat, Jun 29 2019 00:26
by A.G
Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2014, Posts 25

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post

I haven't stated anything about AG.  I am stating emphatically that Scripter 10.4.5 has fundamental serious bugs that are very easy to cause event data corruption. 

You said: Scripter is completely broken in Logic 10.4.5 (see above). I did not agree and gave an example with AG Scripter.

Quote:
If your AG scripts are somehow by sheer luck missing those bugs, than as I said that is great news for your users.

Thanks, all is well done here!

Posted on Sat, Jun 29 2019 00:33
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 809

Originally Posted by: A.G Go to Quoted Post

You said: Scripter is completely broken in Logic 10.4.5 (see above). I did not agree and gave an example with AG Scripter.

 

yes it very much is.  I do not think you even understand how broken it is, but it sounds like your scripts might be accidentally be working ok...or they might not be and your users just don't realize it yet.  Data corruption can be happening and they don't even realize it until one day someone starts wondering why they are seeing the wrong keyswitches happening and they can't figure out why.  The bugs in 10.4.5 are very severe, I'm sorry you don't understand that, but that is true and in my opinion 10.4.5 Scripter should not be trusted by anyone for anything.  But if somehow your scripts are so bare bones simple that they are skating through without problems, then maybe you are lucky.  This is way off the topic of this thread.  The op did not ask about AG.

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