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Bluecat Pathwork VST synth inside VEPro?
Last post Wed, Jul 01 2020 by Duggle, 14 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Aug 09 2019 05:05
by Duggle
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2019, Posts 14

I want to use midi processing plugins before the instrument in VEPro 7.

I'm trying to use Bluecat Patchwork as I have done in other hosts for this reason: very flexible routing of midi and audio paths within an instance.

Patchwork has been mentioned in other threads here, but I'm finding it crashes the VEPro server. The test case is Ableton 10, 64bit Vepro on local host, Patchwork loaded into an instance, and any 64bit VSTi I've tried. I've had identical results with 32bit Vepro, and 32bit plugins.

The midi light on the instance channel flashes with the first few notes that are played but then goes dead. The instrument does not make a sound. Things become unresponsive and I have to kill the server. 

How do I use Patchwork with VEPro 7?

Thanks for any help.

Posted on Fri, Aug 09 2019 07:37
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12056

Hi Duggle, 

I'm afraid VE Pro is not ready for MIDI processing plug-ins. There has been very litlle interest for it so far, so it is unfortunately not high on our wishlist. 

Sorry to have no better news. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Aug 09 2019 10:32
by Duggle
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2019, Posts 14

I understand the limitation of VEPro to host only one input (instrument) plugin hence cannot host a midi VST ahead of main instrument of the instance.

This is why I want to use BlueCatAudio Patchwork which, as a single VSTi can itself host multiple instruments in series and/or parallel. This is a viable solution that I use in other contexts.

The problem I'm having is that Patchwork is crashing the VEPro server. I cannot be sure but I feel that this may be a current limitation/bug in VEPro 7.  Threads like this seem to indicate that people have used Patchwork within VEPro. 

Could the developers of VEPro please try the demo of Patchwork to verify?

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Download/Products/

Many thanks.

Posted on Fri, Aug 09 2019 17:08
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 578
You can also try plogue bidule which I have gotten to work and imagine-Line modular (free). I seem to recall that the AU version worked while the VST crashed, for some reason. I can’t remember what happened with bluecat I did try it too I will try again soon. There can also sometimes be some gui update issues with some of these inside vep.

I also wish vep had a midifx slot which could be very useful for articulation management in the future but as of now a good articulation management midi plugin doesn’t really exist so it’s a chicken or the egg problem. Some other midi plugins could be useful for other reasons though. You can always put the midi plugin in the daw but from Logic Pro that can be problematic with multi timbral use into vep and that’s where a midi plugin slot would be useful.
5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Fri, Aug 09 2019 18:08
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 578

Yea never mind.  Spent a few minutes this morning.  PlogueBidule....crash.  BlueCat...screwed up GUI (probably related to HiDPI) it might have crashed eventually.  Image-line Modular...crash.  I'm out of options.  I did get PlogueBidule to work for a little while, the midi plugin was doing its thing and it worked...but crashed VEP7 within 5 minutes.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Fri, Aug 09 2019 23:52
by Duggle
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2019, Posts 14

Thanks for testing all those.

Yes, there are scenarios where puting the midi plugin in the DAW host side does not do it for you. Ableton's lame midi implementation (no polypressure, midi channels (!), or sysex) mean that such messages are not transferred plugin to plugin. So support for a chainer of some sort fixes this. I digress.

I would like to be able to design potentially complex instrument setups and save as instances (VEPRo project files) that could be used with different DAW hosts.

BlueCat products seem to be high quality software, so I think it would be a positive move if VSL engineers tried Patchwork to see what is going on with that. The results could improve VEPro's compatability with other plugins as well.  

Posted on Sat, Aug 10 2019 03:40
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 578

DDMF MetaPlugin seems to be working inside VEP7 without crashing (so far)....

File Attachment(s):
ddmf.jpg (369kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Sat, Aug 10 2019 13:54
by Duggle
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2019, Posts 14

Indeed , it does seem stable. I'm trying the demo.

BTW; Protoplug looks interesting. Seems to have very little GUI widgets for use in scripts, though.

Posted on Sat, Aug 10 2019 14:15
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 578

Bluecat’s scripter has more gui stuff if you want that.  Protoplug does actually have some GUI stuff though I just don't use it.  Not as much as Bluecat, but its there for simple GUI stuff.  Better then LogicPro's Scripter plugin, not as good as BlueCat's.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Thu, Aug 15 2019 11:54
by Duggle
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2019, Posts 14

Oh no! MetaPlugin also crashes VEPro7.

Unfortunately I had to pay for MetaPlugin to see this. The demo does not allow saving so I did not see that the crash happens on loading :-(

Posted on Thu, Aug 15 2019 13:48
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 578

Originally Posted by: Duggle Go to Quoted Post

Oh no! MetaPlugin also crashes VEPro7.

Unfortunately I had to pay for MetaPlugin to see this. The demo does not allow saving so I did not see that the crash happens on loading :-(

sorry to hear that news.  The fact that all 4 of the subhosters I have can easily cause VEP7 to crash, is I think something that hsould be investigated by VSL.  They don't crash my DAW's.

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Mon, Jun 29 2020 05:00
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 578

Just wanna update this a year later..

As of today, the major plugin sub-hosters I have tried do not function inside VePro7.  That includes

  1. Plogue Bidule
  2. DDMF MetaPlugin
  3. BlueCatAudio PatchWorks

Main reason many of us need this is in order to do articulation management with midi VST2 and AUmfx plugins before hitting the instrument.

I have found a new free sub-hoster which appears to work and so far hasn't crashed VePro7 yet!

https://kushview.net

Seems to work!  Its based on JUCE, so pretty standard compatibility and somehow it has not crashed VePro7 yet (knock on wood)

Note to VSL, PLEASE consider putting a midi fx plugin slot above the instrument.  This would not be that difficult to do and it would enable us to to articulation management that is sometimes needed.  That would be preferable to using a sub-hoster for various reasons, including that when I put ViPro or Synchron inside a sub-hoster, then VePro doesn't automatically detect it and handle it smoothly in MirPro, etc..  So one plugin slot in front of the instrument slot in order for articulation management would be greatly appreciated.

File Attachment(s):
Element.PNG (3,172kb) downloaded 3 time(s).

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5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Mon, Jun 29 2020 05:14
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Park City, Utah, Posts 578

Now if I could only figure out how to make attached images be displayed in my post....

5,1 MacPro 12core X 3.46ghz, 128gb ram, RX580 video, OSX Mojave, VSL (almost everything), LogicPro, Cubase10, StudioOne, DP9, Reaper, Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion6, EW Hollywood Orch, Kirk Hunter, GPO, much more..
Posted on Wed, Jul 01 2020 02:33
by Duggle
Joined on Tue, Jul 02 2019, Posts 14

I like Element, thanks for the tip!

It does work for, me though I'll have to do a lot more testing for stability. It seems very good example of a hosting plugin so far.

It would be much better if VEP developers could simply place additional FX slot(s) before the instrument! 

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