Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
How to use VST plugins as Send Effects in VE Pro 7?
Last post Wed, Oct 02 2019 by lahatte, 22 replies.
Options
Go to last post
2 Pages12>
Posted on Thu, Sep 19 2019 04:25
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

I can't find a manual for VE Pro 7. I need to know how to use plugins, like reverb, etc., in VE Pro 7. 

I want to be able to have the plugins to be seen by my DAW as send effects, hosted in the VE Pro server.

Is that possible?

Thanks.

Posted on Thu, Sep 19 2019 07:53
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 544

Hi,

There is a manual in the download section under MyVSL. Just make sure to set the filter to Software manuals.

If you want to use the plugins from within your DAW, you can purchase them here:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Software_Package/Vienna_Suite_PRO

Best, Ben

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Sep 19 2019 16:38
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1622

Originally Posted by: lahatte Go to Quoted Post

I can't find a manual for VE Pro 7. I need to know how to use plugins, like reverb, etc., in VE Pro 7. 

I want to be able to have the plugins to be seen by my DAW as send effects, hosted in the VE Pro server.

Is that possible?

Using FX in VE Pro isn't any different than normal paradigms, insert, create send buses etc.


VE Pro works as an FX rack via the Audio Input feature of the VST3 version, so yes insofar as that goes.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Thu, Sep 19 2019 23:08
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

I should have been more clear... I want to use my plugins, not VSL plugins, in VE Pro and see them show up as sends and/or inserts that I can choose in Cubase. So far I have not seen anything show up in my sends in Cubase.

I need specifics... details.... how to.... is there a video tutorial on doing that specifically? I haven't found one.

Thanks.

Posted on Fri, Sep 20 2019 16:35
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1622

Originally Posted by: lahatte Go to Quoted Post

I should have been more clear... I want to use my plugins, not VSL plugins, in VE Pro and see them show up as sends and/or inserts that I can choose in Cubase. So far I have not seen anything show up in my sends in Cubase.

Yeah, VE Pro is an instrument plugin, not an effect plugin as far as the DAW is concerned.
"So far I have not seen anything show up in my sends in Cubase." - you won't.

With the exception, the addition known as Audio Input, which is _the_ way you can send to it (as though an FX rack).


[connect to VE Pro and] add FX Track in Cubase and insert VE Pro Audio Input. Connect to it via its popup, which appears pretty much as VEP does in the VST Rack. Instantiate an Input channel/Input in VEP and make that correspond. It returns to Cubase as per that instance of VEP. You can send Audio or Instrument Channel out to it. Not as an insert directly on that channel but inserted on the FX Track and sent to. Now, this is an external device to Cubase so when you go to print the result you want Realtime Export (otherwise it prints nothing).

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Sat, Sep 21 2019 00:02
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

Thanks.

I found this which explains it as well... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvQzjy0_V_k

My issue now is latency for the send effect. The VE Pro plugin shows some 1000+ latency, but the manual claims zero latency. What am I missing?

Thanks.

Posted on Sat, Sep 21 2019 00:59
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1622

Just set Cubase preferences for automatic latency compensation and forget about it, VEP is perhaps the very best at that.

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Sat, Sep 21 2019 03:35
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

I had a thought... I was playing live with the effect send on, which has the latency. If I create an audio track, then assign a send on that audio track to the VE Pro effect, I get no latency.

So I guess I cannot play live with an effect send to VE Pro and get zero (or close) latency for that effect return. Is that correct? If I put the effect on an effects track in Cubase (no VE Pro involved) there is no latency.

Thanks!

Posted on Tue, Sep 24 2019 00:33
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1622

If you mean the send is from an instrument channel generated by you playing, the fact it involves an instrument would include that latency, vs. an audio track. IE., a project with only audio would tend to behave quite more snappy than a full-on midi arrangement. 

MacBook Pro 15,1: 2.9 GHz 6-core i9
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
OSX 10.14.5
VE Pro 7
Posted on Wed, Sep 25 2019 02:19
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

The VE Pro instrument has very low latency. The VE Pro send effect has latency when playing live.

For example, I put a reverb with a mix control in VE Pro and connect to it as an effect send, and turn the mix all the way dry, the sound gets doubled. Alternatively, if that reverb is put on a local effects channel there is no doubling, no noticable latency with the effect.

Sending recorded material to the VE Pro effect works normally (latency compensation).

Posted on Wed, Sep 25 2019 12:33
by Synetos
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2015, USA, Posts 107

I too have been experimenting, again, with VEP7 on local host for send effects.

I am super happy with how it is performing. It is much better than previous versions, and good enough that I shut off my Waves Extreme server.  That is a $2000 piece of gear I do not need now, and I am not limited to Waves only plugs for low latency in my studio.

I am also not limited to a few mixer channels (8) like I was with SoundGrid studio mixer. I can have low latency hosting on anything now. Sweet!

I created an FX instance, purely for this purpose. I can run with a zero buffer, and still not get any artifacts. 

I am basically doing sends from audio channels, and the VEP VST instrument returns audio channels.

Example:I can sing and play piano with all the effects I want, from any library I own. How awesome!

Thanks VSL team! It was well worth the upgrade price. :)

EDIT: I am running at 96k 128 buffer. My RT latency is 5.333ms. I can go lower, but I dont feel the need. I actually can run my system as low as 2.333ms, but it isnt necessary.

DAW = Cubase Pro 10.0.40 & WaveLab 9.5.50
VEP Master = Windows 10 Pro - i7-6950x - 128GB Ram
VEP Slave = Windows 10 Pro - i7-5960x - 64GB Ram
Dell P4317Q & UP3216Q 4K monitors
Audio Interfaces = DigiGrid IOXs
Posted on Wed, Sep 25 2019 20:44
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

Originally Posted by: Synetos Go to Quoted Post

I created an FX instance, purely for this purpose. I can run with a zero buffer, and still not get any artifacts. 

Thanks Synetos. You are running VE Pro on your Daw computer, I presume?

So if you put a reverb, for example, on VE Pro and connect to it via a send in your DAW, and turn the mix on the reverb all the way dry, do you get no delay to speak of? What does the VE Pro plugin show for the latency in that situation?

Thanks.

Posted on Sat, Sep 28 2019 20:52
by Synetos
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2015, USA, Posts 107

Originally Posted by: lahatte Go to Quoted Post

You are running VE Pro on your Daw computer, I presume?

So if you put a reverb, for example, on VE Pro and connect to it via a send in your DAW, and turn the mix on the reverb all the way dry, do you get no delay to speak of? What does the VE Pro plugin show for the latency in that situation?

Thanks.

That is correct. I am running VEP on my DAW, local host mode. VST and FX are all on the DAW and accessed via VEP rack instruments. 

In my pcubase project, I create an FX channel, and then put VEP Audio Input plug on the FX channel.

With zero buffer on VEP, the channel latency in Cubase is reporting 2ms. The VEP plugin shows RT latency as (192)2.0...so, the same thing as Cubase. With 1 buffer, it is 3.3ms. Again, I run 96k/128 samples and my DAW reports a RT latency of 5.333ms

I did what you described, played a piano VST with a prefader send to the effects channel, put Eventide Blackhole reverb on the FX channel in the VEP instance, and turned the mix to zero...basically running through the plug without any reverb effect. I pulled the fader back in my daw, so all I can hear is the FX return coming back from VEP, and it is perfectly fine. No delay. 

If there was a delay, I wouldnt be doing this and I would use my Soundgrid Server for tracking. Once I am mixing, i dont care about latency so much, as it is all relative.

Of course, with send effects, running them dry wouldnt be a real world senario. I can monitor the channel and blend in my effects send/return as desired. I still like to record clean and process after the fact. 

If i decide to do a channel strip, say for a vocal track, and I want to monitor it with the full effects chain in play, then it might add up. However, that would be the case even with the Soundgrid server and the Soundgrid Studio Mixer.

This is a really good thing for my workflow. I have now put my Waves soundgrid server in my live rig and I am running multirack soundgrid, live! It is a super great setup! I may just use VEP live on my slave machine, since I am not really using it in my studio at this point. That would give me the option to run any plugin, and not just Waves. 

I don't know what changed with VEP7, but this didnt work so good on previous versions. I am very happy it does now :)

DAW = Cubase Pro 10.0.40 & WaveLab 9.5.50
VEP Master = Windows 10 Pro - i7-6950x - 128GB Ram
VEP Slave = Windows 10 Pro - i7-5960x - 64GB Ram
Dell P4317Q & UP3216Q 4K monitors
Audio Interfaces = DigiGrid IOXs
Posted on Sun, Sep 29 2019 06:18
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

Originally Posted by: Synetos Go to Quoted Post

That is correct. I am running VEP on my DAW, local host mode. VST and FX are all on the DAW and accessed via VEP rack instruments. 

Thanks for that Synetos.

What I am trying to do is use VE Pro as an "Effects Server". I have a send effect on my DAW instrument track that uses an effect hosted in VE Pro. Here is what I have discovered so far...

In Cubase I opend the VEP Plugin and look at the latency number. Buffer is set to none in the plugin. If I highlight the VEP audio track in Cubase the plugin shows 192(4.0ms). If I highlight the local VST Instrument track the VEP plugin shows latency of 1088(22.7ms).   Why does the latency change?

Scenarios:

1) Instrument hosted in DAW, Send Effect hosted in VEP - Delay

2) Instrument hosted in VEP, Send Effect hosted in VEP - No Delay (Now I'm thinking this may not be correct)

3) Record a MIDI part and play it back - Same as above for the MIDI data. Bounce it to audio and this audio track with the send to the VEP effect plays with no delay (latency value increases in the VEP plugin).

Now here is the strange bit...

I bounce the VSTi to an audio track which also sends to the VEP hosted effect (same as the VSTi track)..

1) Now, if I select this new audio track and press Play in Cubase it will play with the VEP hosted effect without issue (plugin latency shows 22.7ms). Ok. Fine and dandy.

2) If I select the VEP track which has the VEP plugin on it the latency shows 4.0ms, and I get crackling, no matter how I set the VEP buffers. Setting my audio interface buffer high helps that, but that's beside the point. The strange thing is that if I enable monitoring on the VSTi track from which I bounced to get audio  the crackling goes away, and the plugin still shows latency of 4.0ms. To quote that Kevin Bacon character on Tremors, "I mean just what the hell is going on!!??"

===>  Anyway, what I take away from this is that I cannot resonably use a VEP hosted effect or processing for VST instruments, via sends or inserts in Cubase, without issue unless both the instrument and the processing/effect are hosted in VEP. 

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Posted on Sun, Sep 29 2019 06:56
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

Originally Posted by: Synetos Go to Quoted Post

I run 96k/128 samples and my DAW reports a RT latency of 5.333ms

Synetos, I sent you a PM.

I would love to know how you are getting that low latency at 96KHz and 128 buffer. My processor is an i7 6700K, running at 4.4GHz. In Cubase I am in an empty project (except for the testing VEP tracks) at 48KHz and 128 buffer, Cubase says output latency is 7.4ms.

What have you configured on your PC to help with performance?

Thanks!

Posted on Mon, Sep 30 2019 12:41
by Synetos
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2015, USA, Posts 107

What is your Audio interface? I am running a complete Waves Soundgrid setup.

If you are using a USB interface, you will have latency from USB alone.

My PC is 6950x running at stock clock speed. I have 128gb ram, but never use more than 50% of it. I have my Windows 10 OS tuned as well. There are links all over the place on how to do that. One thing for sure, disable windows defender. I run ESET, which is much more efficent. 

Drop your DAW buffer to 64, and you will cut your latency. But again, it has much to do with your overall signal/rig chain. 

DAW = Cubase Pro 10.0.40 & WaveLab 9.5.50
VEP Master = Windows 10 Pro - i7-6950x - 128GB Ram
VEP Slave = Windows 10 Pro - i7-5960x - 64GB Ram
Dell P4317Q & UP3216Q 4K monitors
Audio Interfaces = DigiGrid IOXs
Posted on Mon, Sep 30 2019 22:50
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

I have the Steinberg UR44. My latency generally isn't too bad, just wondered what you have going on.

Thanaks.

Posted on Tue, Oct 01 2019 04:44
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

Ok. More discoveries about the delay on effect plugins. I am finding that there is a delay between different instances, whether using a VE Pro on the DAW computer or on another server.

Here is a short test. I am using Cubase 10.0.4.....

1) Set up an effect in one instance of VE Pro, and connect to it in the DAW as an FX Channel. 

2) Set up an instrument on another instance of the same VE Pro session, and connect to it in the DAW as an instrument track..

3) in the DAW make a send on the instrument track to the effect.

4) Play the instrument. See if there is a delay on the effect (there is for me).

5) Set the instrument track to monitor mode (so it will still sound if another track is selected), and then select the VE Pro effect track, and play the instrument. Did the delay go away?

Please let me know. Thanks very much.

Posted on Tue, Oct 01 2019 22:05
by Synetos
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2015, USA, Posts 107

I already basically did that, and I do not experience the latency you are running into. Your latency is most likely your audio interface. I dont think you can duplicate what I am doing with a USB interface.

DAW = Cubase Pro 10.0.40 & WaveLab 9.5.50
VEP Master = Windows 10 Pro - i7-6950x - 128GB Ram
VEP Slave = Windows 10 Pro - i7-5960x - 64GB Ram
Dell P4317Q & UP3216Q 4K monitors
Audio Interfaces = DigiGrid IOXs
Posted on Wed, Oct 02 2019 01:38
by lahatte
Joined on Tue, Apr 25 2017, Posts 24

Originally Posted by: Synetos Go to Quoted Post

I already basically did that, and I do not experience the latency you are running into. Your latency is most likely your audio interface. I dont think you can duplicate what I am doing with a USB interface.

That's right, but I do not get latency if I select the track of the VE Pro instance that has the effect on it, so I would like to understand what is going on. Why does the selection of track affect the latency?

It's very odd.

2 Pages12>
You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.