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Dorico Expression Map for Synchronized Woodwinds
Last post Sat, Mar 21 2020 by lunar_28664, 15 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Feb 14 2020 23:28
by Mike Coffin
Joined on Fri, Jan 09 2015, Posts 40

I've finished an expression map for Synchronized Woodwinds. The attachment contains presets for all the Synchronized Woodwinds and a single expression map that works with all of them. See the Readme file in the attachment for details. 

File Attachment(s):
woodwinds.zip (94kb) downloaded 19 time(s).

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Posted on Fri, Feb 14 2020 23:29
by Mike Coffin
Joined on Fri, Jan 09 2015, Posts 40

Oh, and let me know if you run into any trouble. 

Posted on Sat, Feb 15 2020 02:44
by Ding_16978
Joined on Fri, Oct 14 2005, Posts 7

Thank!Thank!

Posted on Sun, Feb 23 2020 21:03
by Mike Coffin
Joined on Fri, Jan 09 2015, Posts 40

This is a corrected version of an expression map for VSL Synchronized Woodwinds. The only change from the previous version is the English horn preset. As gerrie on the Steinberg forum pointed out (thank you, gerrie), the file pretending to be an English horn preset was actually an Oboe2 preset.

File Attachment(s):
woodwinds.zip (95kb) downloaded 13 time(s).

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Posted on Thu, Feb 27 2020 13:22
by Ding_16978
Joined on Fri, Oct 14 2005, Posts 7

Trills, half and whole tone. No effect please check

Posted on Mon, Mar 02 2020 06:13
by Mike Coffin
Joined on Fri, Jan 09 2015, Posts 40

Done. This expression map uses Dorico-generated trills because some of these instruments don't have trill patches. In any case, I find the Dorico trills sound pretty good and are more flexible than recorded trills.

File Attachment(s):
woodwinds.zip (94kb) downloaded 13 time(s).

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Posted on Tue, Mar 03 2020 21:21
by chammer
Joined on Sat, Mar 17 2012, Posts 35

Hello Mike,

Thank you sincerely for all your hard work. I too would like to add to the community by creating and posting Expression Maps for the VSL libraries I own. Most of my libraries are VI-Pro ( Dimension Strings, Dimension Brass, Appassionata Strings, a good deal of Solo Instrument libraries, etc.). My problem is that when either importing a Cubase Expression Map or attempting to build one from scratch in Dorico 3, the maps just aren't correct. I am new to Dorico, but even after reading the manual I still feel like I'm flying in the dark trying to get the Expression Maps to behave correctly.

Would you consider posting your process step-by-step? Like the steps for X-Axis, Y-Axis, Combinations, etc. and anything else you think is relevant? Perhaps others would be inspired as well. Thanks for considering this.

- Christian 

Posted on Wed, Mar 04 2020 20:39
by Mike Coffin
Joined on Fri, Jan 09 2015, Posts 40

Sure. I just wrote a short document outlining how I approach the problem. Let me know if anything isn't clear. (You can leave comments directly in the document if you like. I'll revise it with clarifications.)

Posted on Sat, Mar 07 2020 17:28
by chammer
Joined on Sat, Mar 17 2012, Posts 35

Hi Mike,

Thanks again. I just back into town and will delve into the Google Doc asap. Quick question, do you own VI-Pro libraries as well as Synchron libraries? Cheers!

Christian

Posted on Sun, Mar 08 2020 20:13
by Mike Coffin
Joined on Fri, Jan 09 2015, Posts 40

Yeah, I own a lot of VI libraries. I haven't spent a lot of time working on expression maps for them because I also have Synchron versions of most the libraries I use a lot. The biggest exception to that is solo strings. I'm still hoping they'll create a SYzd version of that pretty soon.

For my purposes, the advantage of the Synchron player is that presets can be manipulated programatically. That is, you can write a program to read in a Synchron preset and reorganize it. That lets me create presets that are designed to work well with notation programs instead of live playing, which is what the factory presets are mostly designed for. I don't know any way to do that with VI presets. 

Posted on Sun, Mar 08 2020 20:58
by chammer
Joined on Sat, Mar 17 2012, Posts 35

That's make sense conceptually about Synchron and programs, but not being any type of computer programmer I only have a vague idea of it. 90% of my libraries are VI-Pro, and although I love the technology of the Synchron Player (especially the microphones), the fact it's all in one MIR venue is less attractive to me than the great venue choices in the MIR-Pro world. Anyway, I was wondering if wouldn't mid posting a simple VI-Pro Dorico Expression Map if you have time? For instance, maybe something based on a simple 3x3 VI-Pro Matrix that includes single articulations and a couple combinations. Armed with that basic road map, I can make good headway on VI-Pro maps I think. If you want to put it in the Google DOc, that's cool too. And thanks agian for your time and espertise!

Christian 

Posted on Sun, Mar 08 2020 23:27
by Mike Coffin
Joined on Fri, Jan 09 2015, Posts 40

I added a small example to the doc. It creates a very simple expression map for the VIPRO solo violin. It only covers a few musical techniques, but maybe it will clarify the basic procedure.

Posted on Thu, Mar 19 2020 14:13
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 82

Mike, it's certainly very interesting what you're doing though only having a trial of the SE Synchron, your Expression Map isn't directly relevant. But I do have a question. I see that you are only mapping to CC7 and I asume that in the Synchron libraries themselves, you map to either CC2 if you want VelX or again CC7.

With a Synchron instrument, it is very useful for me to map the Main Volume to velocity so it is possible to use it to easily manipulate individual note loudness in Dorico with the velocity editor, while using CC2 with VelX as the actual primary dynamic controller (the same obviously in Dorico). However, there is are regular and serious velocity spikes when using  velocity as a volume controller in the Synchron libraries I have tried. Velocity wants to go to 127 and sometimes settles there after a break in the music, otherwise the spikes come particularly with articualtion changes. Effectively, this makes Synchron unusable in Dorico unless you're happy to not use the velocity lane.

Could you possibly quickly check for this behaviour if you havn't done so already. One or two others on the Dorico forum have found something similar but an identical controller setup does not result in any issues using VI Pro which make me hesitate to upgrade if this can be confirmed and there is no solution.

Posted on Fri, Mar 20 2020 21:38
by Mike Coffin
Joined on Fri, Jan 09 2015, Posts 40

Actually, I'm using CC11, not CC7, for dynamics in my expression maps. But you're correct: if I want VelX (which is what I actually use most of the time) I just map CC11 to control VelX in the Synchron player. (Maybe I should publish my expression maps/presets so that volume controls VelX by default.)

I haven't tried to use note velocity to control channel volume with Synchron. I've read the threads in the Dorico forum and I know people are seeing glitches. That doesn't really surprise me. In general, using channel volume instead of VelX for dynamics is already slightly problematic. For one thing, changing channel volume will affect not just the current note, but also the reverb tail of previous notes. You can easily see how that can lead to weird artifacts once in a while. If you combine that with using key-switches for articulation, it gets worse, because every articulation change sends key-switches that can change channel volume. Add in manual changes to note velocity via the velocity lane, and you have yet another potential source of confusion. Overall, it seems really hard to get precisely right. 

On the other hand, I've had very good luck using VelX for dynamics and making manual changes using the Dynamics lane. The dynamics lane could use a better UI that's less fiddly, but overall it's reliable and very flexible. When I work on my laptop I switch to using expression for dynamics if I start getting drop-outs.

I'd be glad to do some experiments for you if you can tell me exactly what you want me to do.

Posted on Sat, Mar 21 2020 17:03
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 82

that's very helpful, Mike. I realised that using velocity as the main volume controller isn't ideal but hadn't fully realised the potential consequences. It is interesting that the Synchron libraries default to CC7 for main volume whereas the VI versions default to velocity. That perhaps tells you something! I suspect that indeed it's the keyswitches sending new channel volume info which is causing the disruption although I'm not sure why it only seems to be really problematical in Dorico. Interestingly enough, as I test further, it seems that although brass and woodwind clearly cause the spikes, it's only really audible with strings. I attach a very simple project with just the vln1 extracted so you hear what happens -- the first few bars should be enough. If you don't have access to the the Synchron-ized SE vol1, then you probably won't be able to really replicate. Alternatively you could then just create a short test piece with violins from the full string library and set Master volume to velocity in Synchron (not necessary in the Expression Map) and simply use your CC11 to map VelX in both.

I agree entirely that VelX is the way to go as dynamic controller for most instruments. If I decided to go for the Synchron libraries then I'll probably just have to practice getting an efficient workflow for this using the CC7/11 or whatever lane. It may be, though, that you will immediately see a specific reason in my example for the problem.

In my opinion, the Synchron libraries I have tried give a somewhat greater transparency of sound and fewer issues with odd dynamic changes in the brass among other things so I am considering the upgrade though it's not so cheap if I want to get vol2 as well (I'd need to add a few articulation in the VI version to allow the upgrade). I take it that you are convinced it's worth doing? I also have the VI solo strings and will be interested in seeing what Synchron does to them when they are released.

David

File Attachment(s):
VSLU0020synchronU0020test.zip (712kb) downloaded 7 time(s).

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